Marriage between Muslims and Non-Muslims

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stariz

Age: 122
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Location:
Pakistan, Pakistan
Bis'Millah'ir Rahman'ir Raheem
(In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful)


Before a Muslim man steps into an inter-faith marriage, there are numerous issues that he must understand himself and discuss with his non-Muslim wife-to-be. Some issues are:

COMMUNITY AND SOCIAL ISSUES TO CONSIDER FOR AN INTER-FAITH MARRIAGE : Here I will discuss the issues considering social and practical implications that can generally affect an inter-faith marriage. These issues will include religious compatibility, relationships with non-Muslim relatives, friendships circle, religious celebrations, food, social gatherings, acceptable dress code, cultural awareness and religious tolerance, charity, volunteer activities.

Before a Muslim man steps into an inter-faith marriage, there are numerous issues that he must understand himself and discuss with his non-Muslim wife-to-be.



RELIGIOUS COMPATIBILITY : Given the western environment so resentful and inconsiderate toward Islam, its always better to have peace in the "home." The family life will be much worry-free and harmonious if both spouses belong to the same religion and agree on same theology esp. if cultural differences also exist. Islam allows marriage to a Christian or Jew woman, but only under certain conditions. As described earlier in the first portion, the inter-faith marriages are permissible only in an Islamic society.

It is always better to introduce the woman to Islam and encourage her to become Muslima BEFORE marrying her. It will allow the woman to realize if she can take Islam as her religion and raise kids as Muslims; or if she has any innate notions against Islam or unwillingness to follow Islamic way of life. Most probably it will become self-evident to the man that what type family life can he expect from her as a wife.



RELATIVES & FRIENDS AND THEIR INFLUENCE : Certain situations when dealing with non-Muslim relatives and friends may occur and can lead to unanticipated misunderstandings.



Non-halaal Items :
A non-Muslim woman is not bounded by Islamic values regarding dressing up, mixed parties, eating non-halaal foods and consuming alcohol. She MAY avoid all such items voluntarily to make family life pleasant or as a goodwill gesture to please her Muslim husband, if he doesn't like them. Otherwise, she is under no obligation to avoid what is allowed to her by her religion.

By getting married to a non-Muslim woman, the husband should realize that he has already agreed to her being a non-Muslima and should not expect a woman to behave like Muslima if she is not one.

A Muslim should expect that the family will be invited to certain parties and dinner where all non-halaal items may be served. He may want to shun away from enjoying all the non-Islamic items, but the non-Muslim wife may want to consume them.

Personally I don't like participating in meals where Non-Muslim relatives and family friends offer prayers in the names other than Allah at their dinner tables and show no consideration for other people. It will be difficult to make kids not to eat certain non-halaal items while the non-Muslim mother enjoys them. Again, it is upon the woman's discretion to avoid all or some of the non-permissible items in Islam.



Non-Muslim Celebrations :
Often the problems with non-Muslim relatives arise with the birth of a baby. Most christian grand-parents attempt to test the waters by giving the new-borns baptism or celebrate other religious ceremonies. In that event, unless the non-Muslim wife makes sure her side of family understands her husband's reservations about such celebrations, the situation may get tense at such a joyful occasion and may leave bitter memories.

Grandparents and other relatives may also want to celebrate (religiously) Christmas and, above all, Good Friday- a true christian holiday commemorating the Friday of so-called Jesus's death on the cross and his rising from the dead on Sunday.

Non-Muslims friends will also invite the family on their religious events and the non-Muslim wife may want to participate and take the kids with her to such celebrations and festivities. At such instances, it may be difficult to participate in their ceremonies and esp. in telling the kids what not eat and whom not to pray to.


..... Continueeee... http://www.islaminme.cjb.net
Posted 06 Feb 2005

Bazigaar says
stariz said:



Before a Muslim man steps into an inter-faith marriage, there are numerous issues that he must understand himself and discuss with his non-Muslim wife-to-be.



wife to be??? why can't a woman marry a non-muslim man?
Posted 06 Feb 2005

stariz says
As'Salamu'Alaikum wr.wb.

Well there are several reasons behind on that issue. Like, first that's what islam told us that muslim woman cannot married with non muslim man and whatever Allah said in a light of QURAN and SUNNAH that's what we should follow and we need to remember what use to be good and if we don't we won't recognize what is actually fit between the eyes.

And I think we, all of us have family and on these kind of condition if one forgot about parents and siblings then how could he be expect to be a good muslimah? ok look, if couple already be husband and wife and build a family. There, a husband is a leader to his wife and his children. He has responsible of which way he will lead his family

So if a husband is a non muslim then What do you think he will lead his family?


Takecare,
have a good time ;)
Was'Salamu'Alaikum wr.wb.
Posted 06 Feb 2005

Bazigaar says
stariz said:

first that's what islam told us that muslim woman cannot married with non muslim man



is that not s3xist?
Posted 07 Feb 2005

stariz says
As'Salamu'Alaikum wr.wb.

naah, how could it be yaar?

I don't know what religion u from, just suppose if girl then how could you expect to marry with a man, who's belongs to any other religion? hmm

aur wasa bhe since Islam told us that's it's not possible then how could be a female go against the command of Allah? and if she then you know it's count in sin.

Was'Salamu'Alaikum wr.wb.
Posted 07 Feb 2005

Ashii says
hmmmm...

im sorry but beshak Islam sirf mard ko non muslim se shadi ki permission deta hai aur aurat ko nahi
im unable to understand it

aik taraf it s said "marry a religious and pious woman coz ussi ne tumhare bachon (and next generation) ki parwarish karni hai
aur doosri taraf "a man is responsible how to lead his family"

it sounds sooooooo *****************
confusing
Posted 07 Feb 2005

stariz says
As'Salamu'Alaikum wr.wb.

yaar kia gaya hai tum ko?
confusion kis baat ki.
socho
samjho

agar muslim woman kisi non muslim sa shadi karti hai toa who's the first priority? husband na? i mean jis sa woh pyaar karti hai usko apna sab kuch manti hai.. then what will be her child? adhay muslim, adhay non muslim?

haan agar man ko ijazat ha then there is a reason behind it. maybe he could guide her wife toward Islam and why not. think about it.

and all I know it's that things based on IMAN and if our IMAN is powerful then nobody can take over nor even love. Keep in mind ALLAH and HIS RASOOL (SAW) come first then later our PARENTS and LOVE.

soo confusion door hoi?
ya ab bhe hai
wasa keh dena chahiye jo dil ma ho
dil ka bojh kum hota hai
wasa raaz ki baat hai...
dil ma hai kiaa kahi koi pasand toa nahi agahi    
Posted 07 Feb 2005

Ashii says
hehehehehheee...
koi pasand hota to i dont think that id think twice
coz socha pasand karne se pehle jata hai




stariz said:

agar muslim woman kisi non muslim sa shadi karti hai toa who's the first priority? husband na? i mean jis sa woh pyaar karti hai usko apna sab kuch manti hai.. then what will be her child? adhay muslim, adhay non muslim?


EXACTLY.. that was my point
coz i think agar koi muslim man non muslim woman se shadi kare to he surely love her a lot,,, jiss se woh pyaar kare ga uss ki baat kyun na maane,,
their children can b half muslim n half non muslim

btw,,, aap kissi aise couple ko jante ho jiss mei se aik muslim aur aik non muslim ho
wot abt their kids ???
all couples i met (muslim guy married to non muslim woman) unn k bache "muslims" nahi hein
and normaly aise couples mei jhagra bhi tabhi start hota hai jab bache bare hona start hote hein,, and they have to choose their own lifestyle
(par khair,,, no objection from my side, its their own pb)


stariz said:

haan agar man ko ijazat ha then there is a reason behind it. maybe he could guide her wife toward Islam and why not. think about it.


rite
in same way y a wife cant guide her husband toward islam ???



stariz said:

and all I know it's that things based on IMAN and if our IMAN is powerful then nobody can take over nor even love. Keep in mind ALLAH and HIS RASOOL (SAW) come first then later our PARENTS and LOVE


bilkulllll sahi,, aik dammm sahi
but plz,, now dont tell me k mard ka iman aurat k imaan se zyada mazboot hota hai

coz it s a serious discussion aur meri hansi nikal jae gi
Posted 07 Feb 2005

Bazigaar says
stariz said:

As'Salamu'Alaikum wr.wb.

naah, how could it be yaar?

I don't know what religion u from, just suppose if girl then how could you expect to marry with a man, who's belongs to any other religion? hmm

aur wasa bhe since Islam told us that's it's not possible then how could be a female go against the command of Allah? and if she then you know it's count in sin.

Was'Salamu'Alaikum wr.wb.



i am muslim too, but should men and women not be treated equally? if men r allowed, then why not women?
Posted 07 Feb 2005

stariz says
SALL said:

hehehehehheee...
koi pasand hota to i dont think that id think twice
coz socha pasand karne se pehle jata hai




stariz said:

agar muslim woman kisi non muslim sa shadi karti hai toa who's the first priority? husband na? i mean jis sa woh pyaar karti hai usko apna sab kuch manti hai.. then what will be her child? adhay muslim, adhay non muslim?


EXACTLY.. that was my point
coz i think agar koi muslim man non muslim woman se shadi kare to he surely love her a lot,,, jiss se woh pyaar kare ga uss ki baat kyun na maane,,
their children can b half muslim n half non muslim

btw,,, aap kissi aise couple ko jante ho jiss mei se aik muslim aur aik non muslim ho
wot abt their kids ???
all couples i met (muslim guy married to non muslim woman) unn k bache "muslims" nahi hein
and normaly aise couples mei jhagra bhi tabhi start hota hai jab bache bare hona start hote hein,, and they have to choose their own lifestyle
(par khair,,, no objection from my side, its their own pb)


stariz said:

haan agar man ko ijazat ha then there is a reason behind it. maybe he could guide her wife toward Islam and why not. think about it.


rite
in same way y a wife cant guide her husband toward islam ???



stariz said:

and all I know it's that things based on IMAN and if our IMAN is powerful then nobody can take over nor even love. Keep in mind ALLAH and HIS RASOOL (SAW) come first then later our PARENTS and LOVE


bilkulllll sahi,, aik dammm sahi
but plz,, now dont tell me k mard ka iman aurat k imaan se zyada mazboot ho ta hai

coz it s a serious discussion aur meri hansi nikal jae gi




Salam,

hmm I know a muslim lady from USA. she was convert in Islam and she use to tell me how she's coding her life as she is around 50-55 aur uska bachay bhe kafi bara bara so how could u think ka woh apna bacho ko guide kar sakti hai.

acha agar gor karo toa aysa english countries ma hi ziada hota hai ka muslim man marry with a non muslim lady and mostly it happens ka woh non muslim lady sooner or later muslimah ban jati hai. per kabhe ya sona hai ka koi non muslim man kisi muslim lady ki muhabat ma muslim hoa ho? it's another thing

chalo ya daikho. Islam ya toa allow nahi karta na ka kisi ko zabardasti muslim kia jahay? agree na? hmm so agar farz karo ma kisi non muslimah sa shadi kar sakta ho toa usko mera sath hi rehna hoga, right. mera ghar walo ka sath so agay chal kar aysa mumkin ha ka woh muslimah ban jahay, there is a 75% chances.

lekin agar koi muslim larki kisi non muslim sa shadi karti ha so usko uska ghar ja kar rehna hoga. for example kisi christian ka ghar per aur aysa mumkin hai ka woh apna IMAN ka through waha ka logo ko guide kar da per.... yeah per then chances might be 25% aur aysa toa app bhe manti hogi ka log jaha rehta hai waha sa rang ma dhul jata hai. so aysa bhe ho sakta ka os larki ka 25% iman jo hai wo 0% ma change hojahay? then hmmm.. got it?




rahi tumhari imaan wali baat
so I think aurat aur mard ka iman, barabar hai.
even for me yaha jo Pakistan/India women ha
unka kafi had tak coz mostly unka time ghar per hi guzarta hai
aur ghar per FITNAY kum hota hai as compare to outside



wasa raaz ki baat hai
hansi meri bhe nikal jati hai jab koi Muslim itna idiot sa sawalat kare jinko agar woh khud samjhay toa answer mil jahay :P


ooops sowwie
feel free to ask questions
acha rehta hai
is sa sab ki information bhe barhti hai
meri bhe tumhari bhe hum sab ki
so koi jhijhak nahi honi chahiye, right? :)

Allah bless us, Ameen.
Was'Salamu'Alaikum wr.wb.
Posted 07 Feb 2005

stariz says
Bazigaar said:

stariz said:

As'Salamu'Alaikum wr.wb.

naah, how could it be yaar?

I don't know what religion u from, just suppose if girl then how could you expect to marry with a man, who's belongs to any other religion? hmm

aur wasa bhe since Islam told us that's it's not possible then how could be a female go against the command of Allah? and if she then you know it's count in sin.

Was'Salamu'Alaikum wr.wb.



i am muslim too, but should men and women not be treated equally? if men r allowed, then why not women?



of course we all are equal men and women.
but there is a limit in Islam
u know that we just can't go for things.
in Islam, ALLAH bound us.
Posted 07 Feb 2005

Ashii says
i think we r not talking here abt conversion
so i wont say anything abt that lady,, but glad to hear abt her Masha Allah :)


stariz said:

acha agar gor karo toa aysa english countries ma hi ziada hota hai ka muslim man marry with a non muslim lady and mostly it happens ka woh non muslim lady sooner or later muslimah ban jati hai.


aisa sirff western countries mei iss liye hota k paki non muslims (hindus or christians) in pak are cosidered as "lower class"   
yep hindu traditions practiced by muslims ;)

jahan tak non muslim lady k convert hone ka taluk hai to,, u r ignoring alll these couples jo 3/4 yrs baad seperate ho jate hein,, and believe me unn ki tadaad bohott zyada hai
waise aik baat i know lot of muslims jo europe mei reh k convert to nahi hue but they r no more muslims,,
mahol ka asar...................... khair


stariz said:

per kabhe ya sona hai ka koi non muslim man kisi muslim lady ki muhabat ma muslim hoa ho? it's another thing


yeppp,, rite
hai na hairat ki baaat,,,
did u ever think aisa kyun hota hai ???
coz we muslims gals know (im not talking abt allll gals) well that such marriage d never ever b accepted in our families and so we never let a non muslim guy become more than a simple collegue or friend
hmmmm.. things r changing now



areyyy dear,, wot are u talking abt,, uss ka ghar aur mera ghar
yeh pakistan nahi hai k MARD ka ghar ho,,,
yahan ghar COUPLE ka hota hai,,, and they proudly call it OUR HOME,,,
woh mere baap ka ghar aur yeh mere husband ka ghar,, to phir MERA GHAR kahan hai ??   how sillyyyyyy (khair this is a diff discussion)
aur phir yahan families or parents saath nahi rehte.. ab aik ghar jo do log mil k bana'ain ge to uss mei tareeka bhi DONO ka chale ga na
aur jahan tak family ki baat hai to zahir hai dono ka taluk dono families se aik jaisa hoga




hmmm... waise aik baat
imaan kitna mazboot hai yeh to fitne k saamne hi pata chalta hai na,,


areyyy yarr,,, muslims ko idiot hone ka haq nahi hai kyaaa
i d prefer to b called an idiot than an ignorant

btw,,, u r a guy, rite???
that s may b the reason it s easier for u to accept this







a last thing jo abhi mere zehn mei i hai,,,,,,,,
i ve heard muslim mard "non muslims aurat" se nahi sirf ehl e kitab se shadi kar sakte hein
we all know that Bible, Evangile and (probably) Torah are modified by man
to kya aisi shadi inn conditions mei bhi jaiz hai ???
(if u had enuff just leme know, coz my questions never end )
Posted 07 Feb 2005

Bazigaar says
stariz said:

Bazigaar said:

stariz said:

As'Salamu'Alaikum wr.wb.

naah, how could it be yaar?

I don't know what religion u from, just suppose if girl then how could you expect to marry with a man, who's belongs to any other religion? hmm

aur wasa bhe since Islam told us that's it's not possible then how could be a female go against the command of Allah? and if she then you know it's count in sin.

Was'Salamu'Alaikum wr.wb.



i am muslim too, but should men and women not be treated equally? if men r allowed, then why not women?



of course we all are equal men and women.
but there is a limit in Islam
u know that we just can't go for things.
in Islam, ALLAH bound us.


question is, why does islam only bound women and not men?
Posted 08 Feb 2005

Badal says
Assalam o Alaikum,

Today I read the topic “Marriage between Muslims and Non-Muslims”, all the questions and answers. Here I found different schools of thought, someone trying to explain an issue in a so simple manner, someone criticizing ridiculously, someone laughing at and even refusing to accept the laws of their own religion Islam (I am afraid).

Stariz described what the topic was, in detail, and later tried to explain it in a rather simple manner. The arguments were not in fact quite satisfying to the criticizers (SALL..?). I think the reason was that some points were completely ignored that were critical to the topic. The topic “Marriage between Muslims and Non-Muslims” obviously depends on “The Marriage” itself, that is, the relation between a man and a woman, and since the religion under discussion is Islam, it should be “The Marriage in Islam”. It should be better called “Nikah”, the proper word in Islam. So I strongly recommend you all criticizers to read http://www.muhammad.net/islamiat/marriage/intermarriage.htm.

A paragraph from this link:

Islam considers the husband head-of-the-family and therefore requires that a Muslima cannot marry a non-Muslim because she will be under the authority of a non-muslim husband. He may prevent her from carrying out her religious obligations by either pressuring her or physically abusing her. But it is not the sole reason for imposing the restriction. The situation is considered very damaging for the woman to practise Islam
afterwards and even worse for the kids in such marriages. There are NO conditions mentioned under which a Muslim woman IS allowed to get married or remain married to a non-Muslim husband after she has accepted Islam. Therefore, even if she has freedom
to practise Islam after marriage, she is NOT allowed to enter into an inter-faith marriage.
Posted 08 Feb 2005

Badal says
Now a few words about the discussion which was going here.
SALL said:

hmmmm...

im sorry but beshak Islam sirf mard ko non muslim se shadi ki permission deta hai aur aurat ko nahi im unable to understand it



Very well said Islam sirf mard ko non muslim aurat (only Ahl-e-Kitab) say shadi ki permission deta hai, but under certain conditions, remember it. And also sirf Islamic societies main is ki ijazat hai, agar Dar-ul-Kufr main shadi karta hai tu yeh Makrooh-e-Tanzeehi (close to Haraam) hai aur agar Dar-ul-Hurb main karta hai tu yeh Makrooh-e-Tehreemi hai. And you said you were unable to understand it, so you don’t need tu understand it too kyunkay har baat agar aap ko samjhna hoti tu yeh religions kis marz ki dawa hain? Itnay rasool kyun bhej diye Allah ne? Is liye kay insaan ki akal mehdood hai, har baat nahi samajh satka. Aur doosri baat yeh kay when you say you are a muslim then you have to abide by the rules of Islam whether you can understand it or not. If anyone refuses to accept it then he/she has nothing to do with Islam. And third one, it is not so difficult to understand it, continue reading and searching, you will be satisfied.

SALL said:


aik taraf it s said "marry a religious and pious woman coz ussi ne tumhare bachon (and next generation) ki parwarish karni hai
aur doosri taraf "a man is responsible how to lead his family"

it sounds sooooooo *****************
confusing



Correct again kay aurat nay hi bachoon ki parwarish karni aur mard nay supervise karna hai tu is main confusion kit u koi baat nahi hai. Perhaps aap ko bhool gya kay nikah namay par likha hota hai kay aurat aur aulad ki zarooriaat poori karna mard ki responsibility hai, tu wo is liye hai kay wo aulaad ki sahi tarah parwarish kar sakay unhain poora wakt de sakay, unki tarbiyat kar sakay, aur mard ki responsibility hai wo unki zarooryat poori karay. Islam nay mard ko family ka head banaya hai, tu supervise bhi tu wohi karay ga. Aap ko President, Prime minister, Governors ki posts samajhnay main koi preshani nahi hoti tu aurat aur mard ki responsibilities ki kyun samajh nahi aati.

SALL said:

hehehehehheee...
koi pasand hota to i dont think that id think twice
coz socha pasand karne se pehle jata hai




stariz said:

agar muslim woman kisi non muslim sa shadi karti hai toa who's the first priority? husband na? i mean jis sa woh pyaar karti hai usko apna sab kuch manti hai.. then what will be her child? adhay muslim, adhay non muslim?


EXACTLY.. that was my point
coz i think agar koi muslim man non muslim woman se shadi kare to he surely love her a lot,,, jiss se woh pyaar kare ga uss ki baat kyun na maane,,
their children can b half muslim n half non muslim

btw,,, aap kissi aise couple ko jante ho jiss mei se aik muslim aur aik non muslim ho
wot abt their kids ???
all couples i met (muslim guy married to non muslim woman) unn k bache "muslims" nahi hein
and normaly aise couples mei jhagra bhi tabhi start hota hai jab bache bare hona start hote hein,, and they have to choose their own lifestyle
(par khair,,, no objection from my side, its their own pb)
Posted 08 Feb 2005

Badal says

stariz said:

haan agar man ko ijazat ha then there is a reason behind it. maybe he could guide her wife toward Islam and why not. think about it.


rite
in same way y a wife cant guide her husband toward islam ???



stariz said:

and all I know it's that things based on IMAN and if our IMAN is powerful then nobody can take over nor even love. Keep in mind ALLAH and HIS RASOOL (SAW) come first then later our PARENTS and LOVE


bilkulllll sahi,, aik dammm sahi
but plz,, now dont tell me k mard ka iman aurat k imaan se zyada mazboot hota hai

coz it s a serious discussion aur meri hansi nikal jae gi


SALL said:



stariz said:

agar muslim woman kisi non muslim sa shadi karti hai toa who's the first priority? husband na? i mean jis sa woh pyaar karti hai usko apna sab kuch manti hai.. then what will be her child? adhay muslim, adhay non muslim?


EXACTLY.. that was my point
coz i think agar koi muslim man non muslim woman se shadi kare to he surely love her a lot,,, jiss se woh pyaar kare ga uss ki baat kyun na maane,,
their children can b half muslim n half non muslim


yahaan I think stariz kuch ghalat likh gaey jis par aap buhat khush hui hain. Muslim chahay aurrat ho ya mard uski first priority uska religion Islam hota hai or at least hona chahiye. If if is not the case, then I am not talking about those people. And remember abhi may nay likha tha kay there are certain conditions that are to be met before marrying a non muslim women, aur un main aik yeh hai kay he will have to ensure that his kids are not going be non muslims. If after marriage he allows his kids to be non muslim tu wo kufar ka murtakib hoga, and you may well know what it means. Aur isi fitnay ko roknay kay liye kaha gya kay sirf Islamic territories main hi non muslim aurat say shadi ki jaey.

SALL said:


btw,,, aap kissi aise couple ko jante ho jiss mei se aik muslim aur aik non muslim ho
wot abt their kids ???
all couples i met (muslim guy married to non muslim woman) unn k bache "muslims" nahi hein
and normaly aise couples mei jhagra bhi tabhi start hota hai jab bache bare hona start hote hein,, and they have to choose their own lifestyle
(par khair,,, no objection from my side, its their own pb)



Definitely aap in couples say apnay country main hi mili hoon gi tu aap nay khud dekh liya kay bachay tu gaey Islam say aur wo khud bhi gunahgaar huay, that might not be the case in muslim countries jahaan bachay apna lifestyle apni nahi balkay apnay religion Islam ki marzi say choose kartay hain.
Posted 08 Feb 2005

Badal says
SALL said:



stariz said:

and all I know it's that things based on IMAN and if our IMAN is powerful then nobody can take over nor even love. Keep in mind ALLAH and HIS RASOOL (SAW) come first then later our PARENTS and LOVE


bilkulllll sahi,, aik dammm sahi
but plz,, now dont tell me k mard ka iman aurat k imaan se zyada mazboot hota hai

coz it s a serious discussion aur meri hansi nikal jae gi


yahaan aap bilkul sahi keh rahi hain kay aurt aur mard kay iman farq nahi karna chahiye, but, by the way, stariz tu aisa kuch nahi likha jis ka aap nay yeh ridiculous answer dya hai. Unhoon ne kaha tha “if our IMAN is powerful” yeh tu nahi kaha tha kay mard ka. You should read this carefully. Aur unhoon nay jis flow main baat ki hai us main unhoon nay pehlay mard aur aurat donoon ka zikar kia hai is liye waisay bhi is ka yeh meaning ho bhi nahi sakta jo aap ne liya hai. Mard ka iman mazboot ho gat u wo correct decion le ga kay wo us situation main non muslim say shadi karay ya nahi even he is allowed. Aur aurat ka imaan mazboot ho tu wo Allah kay decision kay khilaf kuch karnay ka tasavvur bhi nahi karaygi.

Bazigaar said:


i am muslim too, but should men and women not be treated equally? if men r allowed, then why not women?



Here comes a general misconception about “Women’s Rights in Islam”. None will be going to explain here that what he/she means by “equal rights” if I ask you all. Does it means if men has 101 rights then women should also have 101 rights? Or it means that if a man has two wives (quite legal in Islam) then the woman should also have the right to have two husbands? Or it means that women born babies so men should also have right to born babies? What a ridiculous argument!. Islam does give every right to every woman she deserves, ALLAH knows better what she deserves and what she is capable of, that is our faith. And you may be well known that Islam gives the most rights to our mother in our relations, isn’t she a woman? I mean to say Allah has given some special rights to one sex only and some to the other, and no one is going to challenge Allah.

SALL said:


stariz said:

acha agar gor karo toa aysa english countries ma hi ziada hota hai ka muslim man marry with a non muslim lady and mostly it happens ka woh non muslim lady sooner or later muslimah ban jati hai.


aisa sirff western countries mei iss liye hota k paki non muslims (hindus or christians) in pak are cosidered as "lower class"   
yep hindu traditions practiced by muslims ;)


mujhay aap kay is comment ki theek tarah say samajh nahi aee. Aap baat tu western countries ki kar rahi hai kay wahaan aisa is liye hota hai jabkay reference Pakistani socity ka de rahi hain. Hai na ajeeb baat. And you should correct “paki”, it is “Pakistani”, not “paki” remember it. And also aapki yeh baat bilkul ghalat hai kay Pakistan main non muslims ko lower class samjha jata hai, Pakistan main minorities ko jitne rights diye jatay hain itna shayed hi kisi country main diyay jatay hoon. France main beth kar Pakistan kay baray main comments deney say parhaiz karain.


SALL said:

jahan tak non muslim lady k convert hone ka taluk hai to,, u r ignoring alll these couples jo 3/4 yrs baad seperate ho jate hein,, and believe me unn ki tadaad bohott zyada hai
waise aik baat i know lot of muslims jo europe mei reh k convert to nahi hue but they r no more muslims,,
mahol ka asar...................... khair



jee bilkul buhat se couple ¾ years baad separate ho jatay hain, laikin aap yeh bhool gaeen kay in countries main non muslim couples ka haal is say hi bura hai aur wahaan separation hona koi unhooni baat nahi hai, jis tarah muslim countries main liya jata hai.
Aap yahaan topic say deviate kar rahi hain, khair, aur yeh baat kay they are no more muslims, still they are better than no muslims laikin yeh baat sahi hai kay akhlaaq girtay ja rahay hain, like apnay hi religion kay rules par criticism… aur yeh haal western countries ka nahi kafi muslim countries ka bhi hai, but that was out topic.

SALL said:


stariz said:

per kabhe ya sona hai ka koi non muslim man kisi muslim lady ki muhabat ma muslim hoa ho? it's another thing


yeppp,, rite
hai na hairat ki baaat,,,
did u ever think aisa kyun hota hai ???
coz we muslims gals know (im not talking abt allll gals) well that such marriage d never ever b accepted in our families and so we never let a non muslim guy become more than a simple collegue or friend
hmmmm.. things r changing now


yeh tu aap nay bhi mana kay koi non muslim mard kisi muslim lady kay liye muslim nahi hoa, and that is, of course, right. But jo reason aap nay batai that is absolutely wrong and misleading too. Yeh jo reason aap nay batai hai yeh tu completely religion say bezaari ki taraf point out karti hai, I hope it is not the case with you. The reason is that most of the people just not want to change their religion, and those, specially non-muslim, who change religion for just marrying a woman would most probably revert to their old religion after marriage. Aap nay aisay log bhi tu aakhir daikhay hoon gay. So extreme care is to be taken. Yeh tu aaj kal jo ho raha hai us ki baat thi, bari waja tu yeh hai most muslim women very well know that it is not allowed for a woman to marry a non moslim rather than thinking that their families would not accept him, and they are quite satisfied with it. And “things are changing now”, remember our Islam was the same, is the same, and will be the same, there is nothing going to change in it. All desired changing in Islam will put the desirer out of Islam.

Posted 08 Feb 2005

Badal says

SALL said:

areyyy dear,, wot are u talking abt,, uss ka ghar aur mera ghar
yeh pakistan nahi hai k MARD ka ghar ho,,,
yahan ghar COUPLE ka hota hai,,, and they proudly call it OUR HOME,,,
woh mere baap ka ghar aur yeh mere husband ka ghar,, to phir MERA GHAR kahan hai ??   how sillyyyyyy (khair this is a diff discussion)



Here again you are misleading all the readers, pehli baat tu yeh kay stariz nay kisi baat may “mard kay ghar” ya “baap kay ghar” ki baat nahi ki, unhoon nay sirf aik traditional say way main ghar say muraad “family” li hai and you know it very well and can be easily seen from his conversation. And secondly, can you please tell me what is the meaning of “HOME”? Home tu kehtay usay hain jahaan kuch relations hotay hain wife, husband, children, father, mother, sisters, brothers and it cant be confined to just a COUPLE, nor a building. Aurat aik ghar se doosray ghar main jati hai, aur usay wo apna ghar hi kehti aur samajhti hai, not his parents’ or husband’s home. And note it again aap baar baar Pakistan ka naam le kar isay badnaam karnay ki koshish kar rahi hain. Aur jin “COUPLES” aur “HOMES” ki aap baat kar rahi hain na tu yeh main, aap aur sabhi jantay hain kay un ki boundaries har teesray din toot kar kisi aur se ja milti hain. Jabkay Pakistan main most HOMES aik baar bantay hain, kabhi na tootnay kay liye, remember it. Sorry if I am going a little harsh, majboori hai.

SALL said:


aur phir yahan families or parents saath nahi rehte.. ab aik ghar jo do log mil k bana'ain ge to uss mei tareeka bhi DONO ka chale ga na
aur jahan tak family ki baat hai to zahir hai dono ka taluk dono families se aik jaisa hoga



wahaan families parents kay sath nahi rehti hain, its correct, but can you answer why? Parents kahaan jatay hain unkay? You and me very well know that wo unhain kahaan chor aatay hain. Or at least alag tu rakhtay hain. Kia wo unkay right unhain de rahay hain aur apni duties ada kar rahay hain? Jab parents old ho jatay hain tabhi tu unhain aulad ki zaroorat hoti hai, aur wo unsay door apnay “HOME” main magan hotay hain, aur jis ko aap so proudly describe kar rahi hai, its pity. Aur aisa nahi hota tu aap ka yeh argument tu completely fallacious hai.



SALL said:


hmmm... waise aik baat
imaan kitna mazboot hai yeh to fitne k saamne hi pata chalta hai na,,


areyyy yarr,,, muslims ko idiot hone ka haq nahi hai kyaaa
i d prefer to b called an idiot than an ignorant

btw,,, u r a guy, rite???
that s may b the reason it s easier for u to accept this



fitne k saamne hi pata chalta hai tu is main mard aur auat ki koi exception nahi hai, aur Islam humain fitnoon say bachnay ki taleem deta hai, yeh nahi kay fitne ko khud dawat do.
And for your kind information Islam main ignorants kay liye tu kuch maafi hai idiots kay liye nahi. You need to study some basic aspects of Islam.

SALL said:

a last thing jo abhi mere zehn mei i hai,,,,,,,,
i ve heard muslim mard "non muslims aurat" se nahi sirf ehl e kitab se shadi kar sakte hein
we all know that Bible, Evangile and (probably) Torah are modified by man
to kya aisi shadi inn conditions mei bhi jaiz hai ???
(if u had enuff just leme know, coz my questions never end )



mera khyal tha aap nay parha hoga likin aap nay tu sirf suna hai, yeh tu hamari Holy Book Al-Quran main likha hai, aur aap nay phir bhi suna hai, mera khyal hai ab aap ko parh bhi lena chahiye. Aur yeh kay muslim woman non muslim man say shadi nahi kar sakti yeh bhi Quran main hi hai.
Waisay yeh baat Allah ko bhi maloom hai kay yeh books change kar di gaeen hain, kyun kia aap ka khyal hai Allah ko nahi maloom hoga aur phir bhi Allah nay ijazat di hai. Islam humain yeh sikhata hai kay hum aisai batoon kay positive meanings lain na kay negative. Yahaan Ahl-e-Kitab is liye kaha gya takay isay mushrikeen aur mulhideen say alag kya jaey jo log Allah kay sath shreek thehratay hain ya Allah ko accept karnay ko hi tayyar nahi. Ahl e Kitab yani true christian and jews at least Allah ko mantay tu hain, Allah ki ibadat tu kartay hain.

Jo samajhna chahtay hain wo baghair kisi kay samjhaye bhi samajh saktay hain aur jin logoon kay diloon par Allah nay muhar laga di hai unko kon samjha sakta hai.

God bless you.
Allah Hafiz.
Posted 08 Feb 2005

stariz says
As'Salamu'Alaikum wr.wb.

hey Zeeshan.. well said   
I think ma itna acha brief nahi kar pata.

aur phir jis tarha app na itna time da kar itna kuch likha ha toa I hope ka jawab mil gaya hoga SALL ko and humhara chaddi bhai jaan ko bhe, I mean (BAZIGAR) bechara ka oper ka kapra koi la kar bhag gaya hai. mena toa offer bhe ki thi ka ma apna da do, aakhir aik bhai hi dosra ka kaam ata hai lekin lagta hai kisi na da diye, app na notice nahi kia? gor sa daikhay kisi larki ka kapra hai, sath ma glasses bhe

sorry just kiddin'
wasa bazigaar tum MIRC wala bazigar toa nahi?
Islamic room per jo aksar ata rehta hai?

Jazak'Allah khair.
Was'Salamu'Alaikum wr.wb. (Allah Hafiz)
Posted 08 Feb 2005

Badal says
Assalam o Alaikum,
thank you stariz. aik baat ka jawab dena to main bhool hi gya ...
SALL said:

btw,,, u r a guy, rite???
that s may b the reason it s easier for u to accept this
...
(if u had enuff just leme know, coz my questions never end )


what a cool reasoning ... it is easier for a guy to accept it because he is guy, in the same i can argue it is difficult for a gal to accept it because she is gal, and why not? yahaan tu aap ki religious acceptance aap ki desires kay gird ghoom rahi hai. Islam ka tu matlab hi farmanbardari aur tasleeem karna tha, aap nay tu is ka meaning hi badal dia.
aur jahaan tak aap kay "never ending" questions ka talluk hai tu jab "the devil" mojood hai sawalaat bhi uthtay rahain gay laikin jaab denay walay bhi miltay rahain gay.
Posted 08 Feb 2005

stariz says
As'Salamu'Alaikum wr.wb.

aray aray Zeshan... mera bhaii
itna gusa nahi
oski samjh ma agaya ha

aur yaar SALL questions kar rahi ha iska ya matlab nahi ka woh nahi janti... woh bhe janti hai bas is liye bhe kar rahi ha ka agar ya na karti toa koi aur karta

aur koi aur karta toa pata nahi kitni deer ma karta

wasa SALL ko ma janta ho
woh aur baat hai ya mujhay nahi pechan pai

Was'Salam...
Posted 08 Feb 2005

Badal says
Assalam o Alaikum,

stariz said:

As'Salamu'Alaikum wr.wb.

aray aray Zeshan... mera bhaii
itna gusa nahi
oski samjh ma agaya ha

aur yaar SALL questions kar rahi ha iska ya matlab nahi ka woh nahi janti... woh bhe janti hai bas is liye bhe kar rahi ha ka agar ya na karti toa koi aur karta

aur koi aur karta toa pata nahi kitni deer ma karta

wasa SALL ko ma janta ho
woh aur baat hai ya mujhay nahi pechan pai

Was'Salam...



stariz yeh baat nahi hai, jo aap samajh rahay hain. infact mujhay maloom hai SALL yeh sab samajhti hain, par is tarah unkay in sawalaat say non muslims hi nahi muslims main bhi misconception create ho sakti hai jaisa kay main nay kae jaghoon par point out kia hai hai she is misleading the readerers of the forum, and that should not be allowed. ok.

Allah Hafiz.
Posted 08 Feb 2005

stariz says
Wa'alaikumu'Salam wr.wb.

aray bhaiii jannn
phela toa mujhay stariz stariz kehna band kare..
you can call me RIZ, freely... ^___^

second, agar SALL aysa nahi karegi toa logo ko pata kaisa chalaga.. aur SALL acha kar rahi hai poch kar.. look, jo usko pata nahi tha ab woh sab uski samjh ma agaya and iska SAWAB mila apko.. ka apna ANSWERS diye ^____^ phir... sahi hena?

wasa app chaho toa meri site visit kar sakta ho and tell me how's it.. >>> http://www.islaminme.cjb.net

aur mazeed chaho toa add bhe kar sakta ho MSN/YAHOO per..
[email protected]   [email protected]



Was'Salamu'Alaikum wr.wb.
Posted 08 Feb 2005

Ashii says
thnx a lot zeeshan :)
hmmm lemme say one thing first,,, for me if an idiot person doestn understand something and ask questions to understand them,, it may take a long time but at the end agar woh samajh jae to he wont b an idiot anymore
and ignorant,,, ahannn jo k kafi kuch janta hai aur jaan sakta hai but koi effort nahi karta,,, and stays ignorant till death,,
hmmm,, i dotn think if a muslim (or even a good human) has rite to stay ignorant all his life
now tell me who s better :)




ZEESHANAHMED said:

Very well said Islam sirf mard ko non muslim aurat (only Ahl-e-Kitab) say shadi ki permission deta hai, but under certain conditions, remember it. And also sirf Islamic societies main is ki ijazat hai, agar Dar-ul-Kufr main shadi karta hai tu yeh Makrooh-e-Tanzeehi (close to Haraam) hai aur agar Dar-ul-Hurb main karta hai tu yeh Makrooh-e-Tehreemi hai. And you said you were unable to understand it, so you don’t need tu understand it too kyunkay har baat agar aap ko samjhna hoti tu yeh religions kis marz ki dawa hain? Itnay rasool kyun bhej diye Allah ne? Is liye kay insaan ki akal mehdood hai, ...........................


Permission under conditions
- only in islamic society
etc

now here s something which sound vvvvvvvvv vv clear
u dotn even need to explain me reasons for that coz i got it
(see im not that STUPID )

but y did u say
""u dont need to understand it""
i think paighambar bheje gae k woh samjha sakein, same with Quran pak,
and im sorry but mujhe poora Quran paak with translation and tafseer + all hadees and paighambar's life hifz nahi hai
hmmmmm i mite me the only duffer in this condition,, that s i keep loonking despretaly and asking those who know better than me





ZEESHANAHMED said:

Correct again kay aurat nay hi bachoon ki parwarish karni aur mard nay supervise karna hai tu is main confusion kit u koi baat nahi hai. Perhaps aap ko bhool gya kay nikah namay par likha hota hai kay aurat aur aulad ki zarooriaat poori karna mard ki responsibility hai, tu wo is liye hai kay wo aulaad ki sahi tarah parwarish kar sakay unhain poora wakt de sakay, unki tarbiyat kar sakay, aur mard ki responsibility hai wo unki zarooryat poori karay. Islam nay mard ko family ka head banaya hai, tu supervise bhi tu wohi karay ga. Aap ko President, Prime minister, Governors ki posts samajhnay main koi preshani nahi hoti tu aurat aur mard ki responsibilities ki kyun samajh nahi aati.


u didnt get me
kehne ka matlab yeh tha k agar parwarish aurat ne karni hai to how can u expect from a non muslim woman k woh aap k bachon ko acha muslim banne ki tarbiyat de,, since woh khud muslim nahi hai (and imagine she s not even interested in becoming a muslim)

i hope u got my question now
Posted 08 Feb 2005

Ashii says
ZEESHANAHMED said:

yahaan I think stariz kuch ghalat likh gaey jis par aap buhat khush hui hain. Muslim chahay aurrat ho ya mard uski first priority uska religion Islam hota hai or at least hona chahiye. If if is not the case, then I am not talking about those people. And remember abhi may nay likha tha kay there are certain conditions that are to be met before marrying a non muslim women, aur un main aik yeh hai kay he will have to ensure that his kids are not going be non muslims. If after marriage he allows his kids to be non muslim tu wo kufar ka murtakib hoga, and you may well know what it means. Aur isi fitnay ko roknay kay liye kaha gya kay sirf Islamic territories main hi non muslim aurat say shadi ki jaey.

Definitely aap in couples say apnay country main hi mili hoon gi tu aap nay khud dekh liya kay bachay tu gaey Islam say aur wo khud bhi gunahgaar huay, that might not be the case in muslim countries jahaan bachay apna lifestyle apni nahi balkay apnay religion Islam ki marzi say choose kartay hain.


VV CLEAR.... no question

but u may try to come out of THEORY
face the real life,,,,,,

meri baatein aap ko BURI or ajeeb shayad iss liye lag rahi hein coz im talking abt ppl i meet every day,,
the way they modified islam laws for their own comfort

aur aap ko shayad yeh lag raha hai k im criticizing ISLAM
im only criticizing MUSLIMS here
and if sometimes i say IM UNABLE TO GET THIS
it means k jo ho raha hai woh meri samajh se bahir hai coz karne waale khud ko islamic laws k mutabik sahi kehte hein


aur waise bhi,,, if i dont understand something in my religion,, am i not allowed to ask and understand Y ??
or ud prefer me to live like millions of ppl who call theirselves "muslims" but r following "religion of their fathers"
i hope u get wot i want to say
Posted 08 Feb 2005

Ashii says
ZEESHANAHMED said:

SALL said:

stariz said:

and all I know it's that things based on IMAN and if our IMAN is powerful then nobody can take over nor even love. Keep in mind ALLAH and HIS RASOOL (SAW) come first then later our PARENTS and LOVE


bilkulllll sahi,, aik dammm sahi
but plz,, now dont tell me k mard ka iman aurat k imaan se zyada mazboot hota hai

coz it s a serious discussion aur meri hansi nikal jae gi


yahaan aap bilkul sahi keh rahi hain kay aurt aur mard kay iman farq nahi karna chahiye, but, by the way, stariz tu aisa kuch nahi likha jis ka aap nay yeh ridiculous answer dya hai. Unhoon ne kaha tha “if our IMAN is powerful” yeh tu nahi kaha tha kay mard ka. You should read this carefully. Aur unhoon nay jis flow main baat ki hai us main unhoon nay pehlay mard aur aurat donoon ka zikar kia hai is liye waisay bhi is ka yeh meaning ho bhi nahi sakta jo aap ne liya hai. Mard ka iman mazboot ho gat u wo correct decion le ga kay wo us situation main non muslim say shadi karay ya nahi even he is allowed. Aur aurat ka imaan mazboot ho tu wo Allah kay decision kay khilaf kuch karnay ka tasavvur bhi nahi karaygi.

hmmmm..
aap ne meri harrr baat ko galt samajhne ki kasam khai hai kya,,, ya phir i look horrible while laffing


EXPLANATION of my rediculous answer :
mujhe stariz ki baat ka matlab yeh samajh aaya k
muslim ka imaan bohot mazboot hona chaiye,, Khuda aur Rasool before parents, wife, children and family
means,,, agar muslim mard ki wife non muslim hai to usse apne imaan ko sab se zyada importance dete hue apne bachon ko muslim banana chaiye
RITE ??? (stop me stariz if im wrong)

and my rediculous answer was
kya itnaa hi mazboot imaan kissi aurat ka nahi ho sakta kya ??
k woh apne husband se zyada importance iss baat ko de k uss k bache muslim banein

aaya samajh








ZEESHANAHMED said:

.........
And you should correct “paki”, it is “Pakistani”, not “paki” remember it. And also aapki yeh baat bilkul ghalat hai kay Pakistan main non muslims ko lower class samjha jata hai, Pakistan main minorities ko jitne rights diye jatay hain itna shayed hi kisi country main diyay jatay hoon. France main beth kar Pakistan kay baray main comments deney say parhaiz karain.


hmmm,,
sorrryy,, i dont give u any rite to correct my voc
i always type in abbrev coz dont want to waste my time
if u want me to type PAKISTAN and not PAKI
then u better check alll my posts,, and correct all the words with wring orthograph and then comes ponctuation and the rst....... im sure u dont wanan do this
i always use ENG for ENGLISH,, no one ever corrected me





ZEESHANAHMED said:

jee bilkul buhat se couple ¾ years baad separate ho jatay hain, laikin aap yeh bhool gaeen kay in countries main non muslim couples ka haal is say hi bura hai aur wahaan separation hona koi unhooni baat nahi hai, jis tarah muslim countries main liya jata hai.
Aap yahaan topic say deviate kar rahi hain, khair, aur yeh baat kay they are no more muslims, still they are better than no muslims laikin yeh baat sahi hai kay akhlaaq girtay ja rahay hain, like apnay hi religion kay rules par criticism… aur yeh haal western countries ka nahi kafi muslim countries ka bhi hai, but that was out topic.


jii bilkul,,,
but sorry,, no one told me that chotti si out of topic baat kehne se number kaat liye jaain ge



ZEESHANAHMED said:


yeh tu aap nay bhi mana kay koi non muslim mard kisi muslim lady kay liye muslim nahi hoa, and that is, of course, right. But jo reason aap nay batai that is absolutely wrong and misleading too. Yeh jo reason aap nay batai hai yeh tu completely religion say bezaari ki taraf point out karti hai, I hope it is not the case with you. The reason is that most of the people just not want to change their religion, and those, specially non-muslim, who change religion for just marrying a woman would most probably revert to their old religion after marriage. Aap nay aisay log bhi tu aakhir daikhay hoon gay. So extreme care is to be taken. Yeh tu aaj kal jo ho raha hai us ki baat thi, bari waja tu yeh hai most muslim women very well know that it is not allowed for a woman to marry a non moslim rather than thinking that their families would not accept him, and they are quite satisfied with it. And “things are changing now”, remember our Islam was the same, is the same, and will be the same, there is nothing going to change in it. All desired changing in Islam will put the desirer out of Islam.


i dont think if the reson i gave was wrong
it s abs rite,, coz im living in a western country and i know quite a lot pakis and non muslims
so,,,, i think im RITE

yep,, most of muslim women r aware of their limits but it seems men r not
coz abhi aap ne kaha k perm sirf muslim society mei hai,,
aur yahannn,,,,,,,, hmmm
khair u ll say again OUT OF TOPIC

btw,, i personnaly know a gal whose non muslim collegue proposed her and he was ready to b converted (not for her only,, he had studies abt islma) but gals fam didnt allow her
now u ll say,,,, ONE CASE,, only ONE CASE
oh well,, case sirf hai hai par soch majority ki yehi hai
hmmmm,, out of topic again
hehehehhehee....
Posted 08 Feb 2005

stariz says
Salam..

larkiiiiiii SALAM toa kar lia karo..
konsa paisa kharch honga   

aray aray..
larna ko kis na kaha hai
aur SALL tum ko koi galat nahi keh raha hai
na hi mai aur na Zeshan..

rahi baat Aurat ka Iman ki..
so meri pyaari si bhenaaa
husband ya parents kia pyaar karte honga os aurat sa jitna ALLAH apna bando sa pyaar karta ha.
aur IMAN samjho dolaat hai MUSLIM ki.. aur
Iman bhe waha kharab hota hai jaha fitna ziada hotay hai..


aur plzzzzzzzzzz I'm RIZZZZZZ
starizzzzzzzzzzz sirf ID hai..
koi aur nahi mil rahi thi na is liye   

take care
Was'Salamu'Alaikum wr.wb.
Posted 08 Feb 2005

Ashii says
ZEESHANAHMED said:

Here again you are misleading all the readers, pehli baat tu yeh kay stariz nay kisi baat may “mard kay ghar” ya “baap kay ghar” ki baat nahi ki, unhoon nay sirf aik traditional say way main ghar say muraad “family” li hai and you know it very well and can be easily seen from his conversation. And secondly, can you please tell me what is the meaning of “HOME”? Home tu kehtay usay hain jahaan kuch relations hotay hain wife, husband, children, father, mother, sisters, brothers and it cant be confined to just a COUPLE, nor a building. Aurat aik ghar se doosray ghar main jati hai, aur usay wo apna ghar hi kehti aur samajhti hai, not his parents’ or husband’s home. And note it again aap baar baar Pakistan ka naam le kar isay badnaam karnay ki koshish kar rahi hain. Aur jin “COUPLES” aur “HOMES” ki aap baat kar rahi hain na tu yeh main, aap aur sabhi jantay hain kay un ki boundaries har teesray din toot kar kisi aur se ja milti hain. Jabkay Pakistan main most HOMES aik baar bantay hain, kabhi na tootnay kay liye, remember it. Sorry if I am going a little harsh, majboori hai.


being a stooopid im allowed to say things out of topic
U R NOT


hmmmmmmmmmm,,,
u r rite abt yahan couples aur families bohot jald toot jati hein,,, par this is not the case with everyone believe me,,
yahan bohot si ACHI fam abhi bhi hein exactly like in pak

ehemm,, jahan tak paki fam ki baat hai to,, u r rite
they prefer to kill (sometimes litteraly) than leave
khekehekheekhekeekee..
(oupss,, sorry that was a joke,,, ignore it)


ZEESHANAHMED said:

wahaan families parents kay sath nahi rehti hain, its correct, but can you answer why? Parents kahaan jatay hain unkay? You and me very well know that wo unhain kahaan chor aatay hain. Or at least alag tu rakhtay hain. Kia wo unkay right unhain de rahay hain aur apni duties ada kar rahay hain? Jab parents old ho jatay hain tabhi tu unhain aulad ki zaroorat hoti hai, aur wo unsay door apnay “HOME” main magan hotay hain, aur jis ko aap so proudly describe kar rahi hai, its pity. Aur aisa nahi hota tu aap ka yeh argument tu completely fallacious hai.


i only told a fact,, aap ko aise kyun laga that im PROUDLY saying it

(hmmm,, i may say something more but OUT OF TOPIC ho jae ga na)




ZEESHANAHMED said:

SALL said:

a last thing jo abhi mere zehn mei i hai,,,,,,,,
i ve heard muslim mard "non muslims aurat" se nahi sirf ehl e kitab se shadi kar sakte hein
we all know that Bible, Evangile and (probably) Torah are modified by man
to kya aisi shadi inn conditions mei bhi jaiz hai ???
(if u had enuff just leme know, coz my questions never end )



mera khyal tha aap nay parha hoga likin aap nay tu sirf suna hai, yeh tu hamari Holy Book Al-Quran main likha hai, aur aap nay phir bhi suna hai, mera khyal hai ab aap ko parh bhi lena chahiye. Aur yeh kay muslim woman non muslim man say shadi nahi kar sakti yeh bhi Quran main hi hai.
Waisay yeh baat Allah ko bhi maloom hai kay yeh books change kar di gaeen hain, kyun kia aap ka khyal hai Allah ko nahi maloom hoga aur phir bhi Allah nay ijazat di hai. Islam humain yeh sikhata hai kay hum aisai batoon kay positive meanings lain na kay negative. Yahaan Ahl-e-Kitab is liye kaha gya takay isay mushrikeen aur mulhideen say alag kya jaey jo log Allah kay sath shreek thehratay hain ya Allah ko accept karnay ko hi tayyar nahi. Ahl e Kitab yani true christian and jews at least Allah ko mantay tu hain, Allah ki ibadat tu kartay hain.

Jo samajhna chahtay hain wo baghair kisi kay samjhaye bhi samajh saktay hain aur jin logoon kay diloon par Allah nay muhar laga di hai unko kon samjha sakta hai.

God bless you.
Allah Hafiz.

ya Khuda,,
aap koi univ prof ho kya,, who s correcting my examination paper ??

for ur kind information me ne parha hi hai,, sirf typing karne mei i didnt choose rite words
Allah ka shukar hai me ne Quran pak parha hua hai,, with translation,, and now im try to read and UNDERSTAND it tafseer too
but as i already said mujhe sab kuch hifz nahi hai,,, me silly thing


aap ko Masha Allah bohot zyada knowledge hai,, can u plz tell me Ehl e Kitaab kaun log hein ??
aur Allah ki kitabein kitni hein aur yeh bhi k unn mei se kitni ka zikr Quran pak mei aaya hai ????
(waiting for ur answer)


dil pe kiss k mohr hai yeh to koi nahi janta
han dil pe mohr kyun aur kab lagti hai yeh baat samajhne ki hai,, but im sure u know better than me


hmmm,, at the end,, thnx again for ur posts
may i ask u one question,, just one plz
aap ki arrogance ka reason aap ki knowledge hai ya phir it s ur nature ??
Posted 08 Feb 2005

Ashii says
stariz said:

As'Salamu'Alaikum wr.wb.

aray aray Zeshan... mera bhaii
itna gusa nahi
oski samjh ma agaya ha

aur yaar SALL questions kar rahi ha iska ya matlab nahi ka woh nahi janti... woh bhe janti hai bas is liye bhe kar rahi ha ka agar ya na karti toa koi aur karta

aur koi aur karta toa pata nahi kitni deer ma karta

wasa SALL ko ma janta ho
woh aur baat hai ya mujhay nahi pechan pai
Was'Salam...


ws salam
im dont think if i know u



ZEESHANAHMED said:

Assalam o Alaikum,
stariz yeh baat nahi hai, jo aap samajh rahay hain. infact mujhay maloom hai SALL yeh sab samajhti hain, par is tarah unkay in sawalaat say non muslims hi nahi muslims main bhi misconception create ho sakti hai jaisa kay main nay kae jaghoon par point out kia hai hai she is misleading the readerers of the forum, and that should not be allowed. ok.

Allah Hafiz.


misleading
i only want ppl to ask few questions to themselves
and stop being LEADED by few ppl instead of Quran

waise bhi i ve HEARD muslim ka imaan bohot mazboot hota hai,, how can they b misssssleaaded
Posted 08 Feb 2005

Badal says
Assalam o Alaikum,

SALL said:

thnx a lot zeeshan :)
hmmm lemme say one thing first,,, for me if an idiot person doestn understand something and ask questions to understand them,, it may take a long time but at the end agar woh samajh jae to he wont b an idiot anymore
and ignorant,,, ahannn jo k kafi kuch janta hai aur jaan sakta hai but koi effort nahi karta,,, and stays ignorant till death,,
hmmm,, i dotn think if a muslim (or even a good human) has rite to stay ignorant all his life
now tell me who s better :)



Now you have explained what you meant to be an idiot and an ignorant, and I agree as far as the wording of your explanation is concerned. But you should note here in the context of this discussion that anyone who know that a muslim man can marry non muslim woman but a muslim woman can not, he is not ignorant in this respect whether he know “why it is so” or not. This knowledge only is sufficient to abstain himself to go against his religion if he is a true muslim. He knows very well it is Allah’s order, he is quite contented with it and don’t need to explore it. So you cant say it ignorance.



SALL said:


Permission under conditions
- only in islamic society
etc

now here s something which sound vvvvvvvvv vv clear
u dotn even need to explain me reasons for that coz i got it
(see im not that STUPID )

but y did u say
""u dont need to understand it""
i think paighambar bheje gae k woh samjha sakein, same with Quran pak,
and im sorry but mujhe poora Quran paak with translation and tafseer + all hadees and paighambar's life hifz nahi hai
hmmmmm i mite me the only duffer in this condition,, that s i keep loonking despretaly and asking those who know better than me



Shukar hai kuch tu clear hoa, I think I should pray at least 2 nafals for this, and I will, InshaAllah. And why I said you don’t need to understand it, there is not a single but two obvious reasons behind it. I thought you could “understand” it. But before that please not I was pointing to “it”, the discussion which was going, not all matters. After all, you need to understand how to say your prayers, keep fast etc. The first and the obvious reason is that everyone cant simply understand every problem. Kia aap mujhay bata sakti hain Allah akhir hai kia? kis cheez say bana hai? Khata kyun nahi? Sota kyun nahi? Itni bara system kaisay chala raha hai? No one can answer nor comprehend it, we are just told to believe it and we believe it. No one can understand Allah though one can feel and see the signs of His existence to make himself believe. Similar is the case with several aspect of a human being’s life, where he needs guidance. Agar insaan sab kuch samajh sakta tu dunya main Ambia aur Paghamber bhejney ki zaroorat hi kia thi? Aur kia yeh Allah kay liye asaan nahi tha kay insaan ko us kay haal par chor deta aur jo usay samajh aey wo karay jo na aey na karay, and on doomsday us say hisaab le ke jo ghalat kia ya sahi kia. Allah apnay bandoon say buhat pyaar karta hai isi us ki guidance ka intizaam kia Allah nay. Aur jab koi guide karta hai tu yeh poocha jata kay yeh jo kaam karnay ko kaha gya hai usay kyun karoon, koi waja batao, ya jis say mana kia wo kyun na karoon. I think it is is not so difficult to “understand it”.

The second reason now. Perhaps you know, if not then you should, that there are two thing ISLAM and IMAN. These are two separate concepts (I am not saying that, it is the saying of Allah, I may be able to give you reference from Quranic Verses) IMAN is meant to believe in Allah, His qualities, His prophets, Angels, you know it very well, and ISLAM is to accept and obey certain rules of Islam that guide a muslim through all aspects of his life. Literally ISLAM also means “to obey”, and obeying does not require to understand “why” we are required to obey such things or rules. Allah par IMAN lanay kay baad kisi (at least true) MOUMIN ko ISLAM kay rules obey karnay kay liye kisi reasoning ki zaroorat nahi rehti. Shaid aap ko yaad ho hamaray Rasool nay 13 saal Madena main logoon ko IMAN ki taleem di thi, unkay diloon par mehnat kit hi takay un logoon ko Allah kay ehkamaat mannay main koi taraddud na rahay, aur result bhi aap nay daikha, unhain jo karnay ko kaha jata tha baghair koi reason mangay kia. Un ki farmaanbardari ka tu yeh haal tha, I will quote, aik hamaray nabi mosque main Khutba de rahay thay aur kuch masjid kay sehan kharay tu hamaray nabi nay unhain kaha kay “beth jao”. Aik sahaabi jo masjid main dakhil ho rahay, he was in such a position kay unka aik paoon door say baji aur andar tha, but jab unhain yeh awaz sunai di kay bath jaoo to wo waheen usi halat main beth gae, farmaanbardari hi itni bari misaal kahaan milay gi kay jo hukam unkay tha bhi nahi phir bhi nabi ka kaha poora karnay kay liye foran beth gae, aur jab tak humaray Nabi ne unhain kaha nahi wo uthay nahi. Aap ka khyal hai kay wo buhat bewakoof thay? Infact wo hum jaisay nahi thay jo sochtay kay kay kyun beth jaoan, ya yeh kay main tu abhi andar aya bhi nahi aur yeh hukam mere liye nahi. They were true MOUMIN and true MUSLIMS. Aur hum unko follow karnay ki bajaey reasons dhoontay hain kay why it is so and why not, just IMAN ki kamzoori hai.

I


SALL said:


u didnt get me
kehne ka matlab yeh tha k agar parwarish aurat ne karni hai to how can u expect from a non muslim woman k woh aap k bachon ko acha muslim banne ki tarbiyat de,, since woh khud muslim nahi hai (and imagine she s not even interested in becoming a muslim)

i hope u got my question now



Certainly, I got your question now. But again the confusion has nothing to do here. Its is extremely simple if correct your words “muslim banne ki”. It should be “acha insaan bnne ki”, because required yeh hai kay woman “pious” ho aur wo is liye takay “wo bachoon ki sahi tarbiat kar sakay” not muslim bana sakay. Aap ko bhi maloom hai Ahl e Kitab ka mazhab bhi neiki ki hi taleem deta hai burai ki nahi. Aur maan ki responsibility bachoon kay akhlaq behtar banana hai, kia aap ka khyal hai kay sirf muslim hi sahi tarbiat ka saktay hain aur kia sirf Islam hi ache akhlaq ka dars deta hai? Thoug it will be an added advantage (and Ahsan) if the woman is muslim too. Yeh non muslim woman say marriage ki condition hai hai usay pious hona chahiye takay wo aolad ko bhi pious hi banay. Aur jahaan tak muslim bananay ka talluk hai tu Islam hi sahi taleem koi Mudarris (teacher) hi de sakta hai, don’t me say that non muslim countries main Madaris nahi hotay, yeh mard ki resposibilty hai wo is baat ko ensure karay kay us ki aulad ko Islam ki taleem mil sakay. I think yeh baat tu aap pehlay hi samajh chuki hai kay man is not unbounded.

Will continue, till now Allah Hafiz.
Posted 08 Feb 2005

Bazigaar says
wesaay to there's a lot i can say, but ek to i am at work, itna time nahi hae...secondly, i don;t see no reasonj to reply here cuz everyone have their mind set and nothing is gonna change anything for anyone anyways
Posted 08 Feb 2005

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