* Kosher / Halal *

kya keh rahe hooooooooooooo
kuch samajh nahi aa rahi



dekho,,,,,,
mere samajh mei gosht halal hone ki yeh conditions hein :
1/ janwar jiss ka khana ja'iz ho
2/ Ehl e kitab k haath se zibah ho (Khuda ka naam le k)
3/ Zabeeha ho,, woh jo aik spec tareeke se halal karte hein,, pehle sheh rag aur kuch aisa hi

first 2 batein clear ho gai hein
3rd one ka batao abbbbb


yeh fish ka bhi,,, aur murdaar ka kya matlab hota hai
aur fish agar kissi ehl e kitab ne na pakri ho tab ???

okk forget the fish,,
zabeeha wali baat clear karo sirf

plz SD, DL,,,
and the resttttt

Oh!!!!!
later! I have to think of a way to explain it.

Aslaamualikom "humay mcdonland nahi kana chaiya in forign (in other places).
Aghar kana hai to Halall mcdonland se kaho

s3am5 said:

Aslaamualikom "humay mcdonland nahi kana chaiya in forign (in other places).
Aghar kana hai to Halall mcdonland se kaho

Y ??

Mcdonald ko kaise halal karte hein ??

Smooth_daddy said:

Allah SWT allowed us the food of the people of the book. It definitly has to be "Tayyab" that is clean and pure and have no trace of haram added to it. It does not mean it has to be zabiha. As DL et al mentioned earlier, when any animal or even other items of consumption are given in the name of one other than Allah are neither halal nor Tayyab.

I disagree. What it means to be Zabiha? Zabiha means the (meat of) animals slaughtered according to our relegious rites. And also, one of them is pronouncing the name of Allah (not that, not pronouncing the name of other than Allah).

"For every nation We have specified a rite (for slaughtering) so that they may pronounce the name of Allah Ta'ala upon (the slaughter of) the animals granted to them as sustenance." (Al-Hajj 22:34)

For an animal to be considered Islamically lawful (halal), there are basically three conditions.

1) The name of Allah must be pronounced at the time of slaughtering;

2) Most of the four veins (including the Jugular vein, according to some) must be cut with a knife, blade or any tool that is sharp and has a cutting edge;

3) The slaughterer must be either a Muslim or from the People of the Book (Ahl al-Kitab).


Here are some more verses from Quran regarding pronouncing the name of Allah:

1) "And consume not of that whereupon the name of Allah Ta'ala was omitted (at the time of slaughter). Indeed it is a transgression. Verily the Shayateen inspire their friends to cause division with you. If you obey them, you are indeed Mushriks (ascribing partners to Allah)." (Al-An'am 6:121)

2) "So take the name of Allah upon them (at the time of slaughter) while they stand in rows." (Al-Hajj 22:36). In reference to Camels which are slaughtered by Nahr (a swift stab of the neck which severs the four arteries) while standing.

3) "...and such animals upon which they mention not the name of Allah only to fabricate a lie against him." (Al-An'am 6:138)


All veins must be cut, otherwise all the blood may not come out of the body and this blood is haram:

"Forbidden to you are Maytah (carrion), flowing blood, the flesh of swine and that slaughtered for other than Allah as well as the (animal) expiring by strangulation, illness or pain, falling (from a height), by a wound (sustained through fighting) and by falling to a predator and (about to be consumed), excepting those (animals) upon which you effect Zakah (Shar'ee slaughter)." (Al-Maidah 5:3)


And third condition already known to evryone here, just a refference again:

"This day all good things have been made lawful for you. And the food of the people of the Book is lawful for you..." (Al-Maidah 5:5)

Z,
jews slaughter in same way
but wot do u mean by "name ALLAH"
i d say, name GOD,, coz all monotheists (people of book)beleive in same GOD



kar diya na kanfuuuuuuuzzzzzzzzzze phir se

SALL said:

Z,
jews slaughter in same way
but wot do u mean by "name ALLAH"
i d say, name GOD,, coz all monotheists (people of book)beleive in same GOD



kar diya na kanfuuuuuuuzzzzzzzzzze phir se

I couldn,t understand, what is the confusion? Dont stick to the words, they pronounce the name of Allah in their own way (maybe GOD), then where is the confusion?

Djeedja Shareef said:

some muslims say ke zibah karte waqt name lena zaroori hai. but in the opinion of some others(e.g.Al-Azhar Kairo University) and in my opinion, too, u could pronounce Allahs name as soon as u get the meat in ur plate.

Read the Quranic verses that i mentioned above, Do you still have the opinion that pronouncing Allah's name is not necessary? If you have any Quranic verse/Hadith suporting your opinion, you can post here.

Djeedja Shareef said:

its the same, as u may eat the meat of animals which ur dogs catch for u. ab dogs kya Allah ka naam lete haiN? but unn ko sikhaya hota hai aur animals ko pakarrne ki niyyat yeh hoti hai ke insan uss gosht ko khaye. to jabb animals ka pakkra hua gosht allow hai to woh gosht, jo ke bana hi khaanay ke liye ho , woh kioN mana hona chahiye? doosra gosht woh mana hai, jiss par Allah ke siwa kissi ka naam liya gya ho, as i said over.

Hunting animals are means of slaughtering like knives, blades, etc. And just like we pronounce the name of Allah before running the knife, we pronounce the name of Allah before leaving the hunting animals for hunting. Here is a Hadith:

Adi ibn Hatim (Allah be pleased with him) narrates that he said: "O Messenger of Allah! At times, I let go of my hunting dog but I find with it another dog and I am unaware which of the two hunted the animal? The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) said: “Don’t eat (from the hunted animal), for you have pronounced the name of Allah on your dog and not on the other." (Sahih al-Bukhari, no 5486)

SALL said:

hey one thing
i ve heard k shikar kiye hue janwar ko marne se pehel churi pher lete hein k woh 'zibah' ho jae
otherwise woh murdar hota hai,, yani haram

This is not about hunted animals, this is about animals that are about to die because of severe injury, falling through a height etc, and this is mentioned in this Ayah:

"Forbidden to you are Maytah (carrion), flowing blood, the flesh of swine and that slaughtered for other than Allah as well as the (animal) expiring by strangulation, illness or pain, falling (from a height), by a wound (sustained through fighting) and by falling to a predator and (about to be consumed), excepting those (animals) upon which you effect Zakah (Shar'ee slaughter)." (Al-Maidah 5:3)

Badal said:

I couldn,t understand, what is the confusion? Dont stick to the words, they pronounce the name of Allah in their own way (maybe GOD), then where is the confusion?

RITE
yehi to confirm kar rahi thi yar

y r u so saruuuu



THANKS

Badal said:

Smooth_daddy said:

Allah SWT allowed us the food of the people of the book. It definitly has to be "Tayyab" that is clean and pure and have no trace of haram added to it. It does not mean it has to be zabiha. As DL et al mentioned earlier, when any animal or even other items of consumption are given in the name of one other than Allah are neither halal nor Tayyab.

I disagree. What it means to be Zabiha? Zabiha means the (meat of) animals slaughtered according to our relegious rites. And also, one of them is pronouncing the name of Allah (not that, not pronouncing the name of other than Allah).

"For every nation We have specified a rite (for slaughtering) so that they may pronounce the name of Allah Ta'ala upon (the slaughter of) the animals granted to them as sustenance." (Al-Hajj 22:34)

No disagreement on that. I used "Zabiha" as a rhetorical expression and not as a technical term.
Secondly, pronouncing name of Allah is required for when we are slaughtering animals. How many of us have visited slaughter houses in pak or other muslim countries to varify slaughterer were pronouncing name of Allah on all animals. We are not even sure animals they slaughter were not wounded or preyed upon or sick... It is only by trust of a muslim on a muslim that we don't question zabiha of a believing person. Same condition applies to Ahlul kitab so long as the animal is permissible to us. This is out of mercy of Allah. Allah SWT guided us in Quran, ..."You will find Christians closest to you in faith...Polythiests and Jews as worst enemies..."

SALL said:

Badal said:

I couldn,t understand, what is the confusion? Dont stick to the words, they pronounce the name of Allah in their own way (maybe GOD), then where is the confusion?

RITE
yehi to confirm kar rahi thi yar

y r u so saruuuu



THANKS

where it sounds in my posts that i am saruu?

if it is true then definitely aap ka asar ho gaya hai

Smooth_daddy said:

No disagreement on that. I used "Zabiha" as a rhetorical expression and not as a technical term.
Secondly, pronouncing name of Allah is required for when we are slaughtering animals. How many of us have visited slaughter houses in pak or other muslim countries to varify slaughterer were pronouncing name of Allah on all animals. We are not even sure animals they slaughter were not wounded or preyed upon or sick... It is only by trust of a muslim on a muslim that we don't question zabiha of a believing person. Same condition applies to Ahlul kitab so long as the animal is permissible to us. This is out of mercy of Allah. Allah SWT guided us in Quran, ..."You will find Christians closest to you in faith...Polythiests and Jews as worst enemies..."

We were discussing the lawfulness of the slaughtered animals in Islam and Zabiha is an Islamic term should be used as it is. Saying like that 'It does not mean it has to be zabiha' could potentially betray the reader. Also your posts seem to imply that pronouncing the name of Allah is not neceesary, what is necessary in 'not pronouncing the name of other than Allah' (and DS is clearly of the same opinion) so i tried to clear it out that it is indeed necessary to pronounce the name of Allah before slaughtering.

And it is another issue that the words of a beleiver (that the animal is slaughetered according to Sharia) should be accepted. I will post a Hadith about it. Infact the question of rejecting the meat of the animals slaughtered by Muslims/People of the Book only arises when it is evident that it not Zabiha (any of the condition of being Zabiha is missing), as in case of most modern day machine slaughtered animals.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..
much clear now,,

SD,, its only the word zabiha which confused me,, par ab samajh aa gaya hai

Z,,
Also your posts seem to imply that pronouncing the name of Allah is not neceesary, what is necessary in 'not pronouncing the name of other than Allah' (and DS is clearly of the same opinion)
i agree to them aswell,, coz as SD said slaughter houses mei thousands of animals zibah hote hein, i dont think k sab pe Allah ka naam liya jata ho
waiting for ur next post,,

no way,, aap pe mera asar hota to aap ka naam badal nahi pagal hota



THNX BOTH

@badal
u might be right, i have read the verses. the translations, too. and tafaseer, too. the fact is that in every translation u see the words, which underline ur opinion. but they are in brakets (?).

like (at the time of slaughtering). that means for me clearly, that u are using one interpretation. others dont use it. so what. in my opinion the name of Allah could be said everytime. and mr. badal i didnt tell that Allahs name shouldnt be pronounced.

every halal meat is not zabeeha
but every zabeeha is halal. ur confusion is, coz u are going to set zabeeha equal to halal. kabhi kartoos ki goli se shikaar kiya hai aap ne?

every halal meet is not zabeeha
but every zabeeha is halal


yar sorry mera dimag khatam ho gaya hai


kartoos kya hota hai

Sorry Badal, I disagree on the term zabiha being Islamic. It has an Islamic connotation to it but it is a word from Arabic languge. Root of the word is "Zibh". Derivaties of which have been used in several contexts in Quran. Example: In the story of Ibrahim AS, when he approaches Ismail AS and mentions to him his dream, he says: "...in-ni azbahu-ka'..." ...I am slaughtering you... it didn't mean I am slaughtering you in "Islamic way". This is where it is used in a rhetorical style as opposed to literary context. BTW, words halal and haram are actually purely Islamic terms. Allah says: " Wa a hal-lal lahul bai'a wa har-ramar riba..." And Allah made trading (business) halal and interest as haram. you got the point.

For the reasons Allah made the food of Ahlul kitab halal for us is because the basis of their belief system is monothieism. Because of this belief, their liklehood of slaughtering animals in the name of false gods or deity is almost (not quite)as remote as it is for Mulsims. Their methods of killing animals are based on guidence provided in the books of Allah (though amalgamated yet bear some truth).

Last but surly not the least, It is only Allah who legislates what is halal and what is haram. Allah permitted the food of Ahlul Kitab for Muslims and Muslims food for them (with some restrictions). No one can take that away in the name of any interpretations.

SD n DL,, one question
agar "zabeeha" zaroori nahi to y r we not allowed to eat "jhatka"

i ve 'heard' k jhatka khana haram hai

Word "jhatka" is a Urdu terminology and it is not an Islamic term. It means the process of killing an animal with a stroke of a weapon that cuts the neck off the animal. This is a practice in most western societies. Mind that "jhatka" is a zabiha of Ahlul kitab. It is not haram because Allah made it permissible for us to consume from the food of Ahlul Kitab.

Zabiha is required for slaughtering an animal. I agree with badal on this issue that if it is known that Ahlul kitab did not kill the animal according to their practice of slaughtering and instead opted for strangulating it, it is not permissible for us to eat that meat.
For a believer (Muslim) it is a must to make zabiha on an animal.

Sall etal, I am not promoting or asking anyone to substitute consumption of meat processed in an Islamic way with "jhatka". It is just to answer that it is "PERMISSIBLE" to consume the food of AhlulKitab.

Remember that Allah has choosen pure things for a believer out of His Mercy and it is better for us. I will recommend doing our utmost best and again "utmost best" to acquire and consume food processed in pure Islamic ways. But if you don't have it availble food of Ahlul kitab is the other alternative so long as it is "HALAL".

Mind you, not mentioning name of Allah before eating or drinking any thing, no matter how pure, Islamic and halal, becomes food of the devil.

Allah knows the best and i seek forgiveness from Him for anything I said wrong and thank Him for making me say right things which are right. THESE ARE MERELY MY UNDERSTANDINGs AND IN NO WAYS CONSTITUE ANY RULINGS. PLEASE TAKE THE WORD OF QURAN OVER MY WORD OR OF ANYBODY ELSE. IT IS THE WORD OF ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER THAT OVERULES ALL OTHER OPINIONS. I WOULD EARNESTLY URGE YOU ASK MORE LEARNED SCHOLARS AND TAKE THEIR RULING OVER MY HUMBLE WORD.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,,,,,
now i hope i cld explain all that to other


SD u r the best
thannkkssssssss,,
Z, DL




y do we pay attention to things which r not even important in Islam,, khud se restriction khara kar lete hein

i know a lottttt of ppl,, all a generation u can say
who drink,,, have xtra marit relations,, only pray once a week,,, harr aik burai hai unn mei,,
but they ll neverr ever touch to 'non muslims' meat,, chahe woh "halal" ho


have ya ever been to UK,, try to follow their asian radio adz,,,
"ulema e karaam ki nigrani mei zibah kiye jaane waale janwar"

ad sunn k mujhe hamesha lagta hai as jaise harr janwar ko zibah karne se pehle usse wuzu karwa k kalma parhaya jata hai

Allah miyan sab ko seedha rasta dikha'ain
Ameen

AMEEN

kaartoos is a bullet. aik goli ke ander buhat si choti choti goliyan hoti hain. u can kill lot of birds with one shot. sometimes more than 50. after the shot, har koi dorr raha hota hai ke birds ko pakarr ke zibah kar sake but most of the birds are dead before a man reaches them but they are still not haram. assal me barri barri batoN ka lihaaz nahi rakha jata iss liye ab chotti chotti si baton par behas kar ke samjha jata hai ke deen yehi hai aur islam kuch aur nahi hai.


references for other matter about halah and haram from ehl-e-kitaab and others: I give here just references from sihaa sittah, (all ahadees of imaam muata are narrated also in saheehain, too). these are just comprehensions, for details see the original references.

1. bukhari: kitaab u tauheed:
Hazrat Aisha(raa) narrated, that some companions asked Anhazrat: “some new muslms bring us meat and we don’t know, whether the name of Allah is pronounced on it or not and whether they have slaughtered the meat”. Anhazrat Mohamma (saws) said, “you should pronounce the name of Allah on it and eat it surely.”

2. imam muata, kitab u zakat:
some companions asked the prophet (saws), “some ppl from the village bring us meat and we dont know, whether they have pronounced the name of Allah on it or not, what should we do?.”
Anhazrat Mohammad (saws) said, “pronounce the name of Allah on it and eat it.”

3. masnad Ahmad and abu daud (kitabul at’ima)
in a war cheese was brought to the prophet (saws). he asked, “where was it made?”. companions said “in Persia (Persians were not ehl-e-kitaab even) and we think that they mixed haram things in this chees.”
Anhazrat Mohammad (saws),” don’t be such curious, cut and eat it”

4. in one hadees (masnad Ahmad) companions said, “we even heard that the persians used murdaar for preparing this cheese.” Anhazrat Mohammad (saws) said the same as mentioned before.

5.Bukhari, kitabus said wadhabaaH
here i give just a comprehension. aNhazrat Mohammad (saws) said, “if u left ur dog with the name of Allah for chasing (shikaar) and this dog has kept the animal although the animal died, u may eat his meat.“

so here an animal dies before it is slaughtered. just the name of Allah is enough. no slaughtereing, no zabeeha and so on.

Allah hidayet de. ameen.

yaaad aa gaya post karna




kartoos itni khofnaak cheez hoti hai
kya naaa,,,,, bechare janwar


hmmm ab kafi hadd tak clear ho gaya hai sab,,, SD ki prev post bhi aur DL aap bhi


thnxxxxx,,,

if i have more questions i know kis se puchna chaiye
(ab darr k bhaag nahi jana sab)

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