well just read this on BBC!! ummmmm...

Pakistan: 'Bastion of freedom'
The BBC Urdu service's Masud Alam takes a wry look at freedoms in military-led Pakistan compared with those on offer in the West.

The generals fancied a little light entertainment

Freedom, like happiness and embarrassment, can be found in the most unlikely places.


I went looking for it - freedom, that is - across three continents and then returned home to find it here. Absolute, complete and unadulterated freedom for all, right here in Pakistan.

It's the kind of freedom people living in the West may envy all they can - but will never enjoy for themselves because they are so shackled by laws, bylaws, regulations and conventions.

They are so hemmed in that they cannot figure out for themselves what freedom is.

The Americans even had to include "pursuit of happiness" in their constitution! And how do they go about this pursuit?

In Pakistan every citizen has, and exercises at will, the right to free speech, any time, anywhere



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Every week-end they stand dutifully in long queues outside night clubs, suffer humiliation at the hands of foul-mouthed bouncers, get served insipid, ridiculously low-alcohol beer at exorbitant prices, and are subjected to music so loud, no one can make out how bad it is...


Here in Pakistan, nothing and no-one is allowed to stand in the way of an honest citizen's right to do as they please.

Stealing the show

The other day, some of the top army generals finished a hard day's work at a conference in Islamabad and decided they'd earned a bit of entertainment.

Buoyed by their own spontaneity, they had that evening's sold-out performance of the musical Bombay Dreams cancelled for ticket-paying patrons, and enjoyed an exclusive viewing of Pakistani girls dancing to Indian music director AR Rehman's tunes.

That's freedom! Freedom to steal the show, in this case.


Traffic rules are routinely ignored

Even though alcohol is banned by law, industrialists are free to run breweries and entrepreneurs make up the shortfall through bootleg operations.

As a result, a Pakistani gets his beer (scotch in mild weather, vodka in winter) delivered at the doorstep by a friendly neighbourhood bootlegger, at roughly the same price, if not less, than an American pays for a similar brand at a liquor store.

London has its Speaker's Corner in Hyde Park, where political workers, religious zealots and nutcases of all varieties stage a shouting match on Sundays.

But in Pakistan every citizen has, and exercises at will, the right to free speech, any time, anywhere.

The head of a mosque in the capital routinely and publicly humiliates the government and threatens it with suicide bomb attacks.

But the government still pays towards the running costs of two seminaries whose students are urged to carry out his threats.

'Sexuality in Pakistan'

The media is free to go on speculating about a "deal" between President Musharraf and the opposition Pakistan People's Party (PPP), just as both parties are within their rights to forcefully deny it today and coyly admit to it tomorrow.

And audiences are also free to decide they are not bothered one way or the other.

My colleague, Sanwal, interviewed a roadside vendor in Lahore for a feature on "Sexuality in Pakistan".

This man called himself Dr Khan - or something similar - and sold herbal remedies for sexually-transmitted diseases. He told Sanwal his line of business does well all year round because "men exercise as little control over their sexual organs as they do over their tongues and minds".


It's still easy to obtain a tipple in Pakistan

This is the extent of freedom enjoyed by men in Pakistan. As for women, they are also free, as pointed out by President Musharraf, to seek emigration to Europe or Canada by pretending to be victims of sexual crimes.

The political system is just as emancipated. Unlike the West, where power tends to revolve between a handful of politicians, the Pakistani model is far more inclusive.

It has made popular political figures out of serving and retired army generals, World Bank executives, illiterate land owners, semi-literate industrialists, simple-minded sons and daughters of public figures... Everyone is free to be a leader.

At the street level, there's even more freedom. Pakistanis don't require a driving licence to operate anything from a motorcycle to a heavy vehicle, neither are the local police fussy about regulating the traffic.

'No ganja'

Regulations, most Pakistanis believe, are just another instrument of state oppression that has no place in a free and just society like theirs.

So motorists go about fluttering all over the unmarked roads which they share with pedestrians, hawkers, cyclists and horse-drawn carts.

The only rule is: when in doubt, honk. Motorists here believe in honking more than they trust their brakes or steering wheel, and definitely more than their eyes.


Benazir Bhutto - rumours of a deal with Musharraf

I generally dislike noise. Perhaps the policeman in the middle of the square does too. But he cannot interfere with the freedom of citizens to honk as much as they like.

I'm impressed with the amount and variety of freedom exercised in this country. And it beats me why the tourism ministry hasn't thought of highlighting the fact in its brochures, especially in "Visit Pakistan" year!

Maybe they don't need to spread the word.

I ran into three working-class Britons, sitting in a foul mood outside a café across the road from Rose and Jasmine Garden where their camp site was. One of them approached me, and pointed an accusing finger at my person.

He hissed: "We worked hard and saved money for this holiday. We could have gone anywhere. But we chose Pakistan. You know why, mate? Because of its ganja. Now we are here and we have no ganja!"

Freedom - even to get stoned - is not a commodity that can be taken for granted.

itni details kaisay perhoon mainn ....

new_beau:

itni details kaisay perhoon mainn ....

these details have nothing to do with the current topic. This is an article from one of the BBC reporter who has moved back to pakistan. He is now trying to make fun of the culture because he thinks he is gora himself

Ashii:

so
wot do u think ???

jo hua sahi hua ???
jo ho raha hai sahi ho raha hai ??

wots next

This is how I look at it. The case is being reviewed by a panel of judges. We are just too quick to jump on conclusions. There is a system, that is setup for these kind of things. I think we should let the system work, and wait until we hear the rulings of the panel.

On the personal note, I think it was a mis calculated step on Musharaf's part. He must have gotten some stupid advisors. The same kind who got Nawaz Sharif in trouble. This is my problem with dictatorship. No matter how good the intentions are, the word of the dictator becomes the law. What every dictator fails to realise is that, he is also a human, and Humans make mistakes

yup,to err is human and to face the music is also human and this is what is happening now.
but personaly,i think the c.j.does not deserve the kind of glory he has met with,he is the person who took suo-moto action of over flowing drains but did not budge when ppl were being killed by the most powerfull institution of the state in balochistan.no wonder musharaf says he personaly has good terms with the c.j.
jo ho raha he theek is tarah he k atlast ppl seem to have come out of slumber and the inteligenstia is also playing its role in a more positive way.

no thnxxxxxxx patak im not gonna read this article
i wanted to know ur pers views



thnx sharmili and nikama
waiting for others to say something,, for the moment i dont have anything to say abt it after yesterday's incident

go musharraf go.

First time in pakistans 60 years, the lawmakers n the judicary has stood for the constitution and against dictatorship. A despot who is gone crazy lately, supported shamelessly by power hungry party leaders for the sole purpose of filling their hellish appetites, has suspended the chief justice of pakistan.

The charges against the CJ?
- use of authority to appoint his son who is a doctor by proffession, an ASP without proper channel of interviews after the CSS exam.
-use of excessive protocol.
-use of a number plate of RAZIA ONE by a family lady of the CJ.

these charges seem hilarious considering how all the ruling party leaders use their powers including mr musharraf himself.
An example being my personal experience, of knowing that MOONIS ELAHI son of CHIEF MINISTER PERVAIZ ELAHI, charges 2 lacs for one SIFARISH and sits in his fathers office for his business.

The grugde of the lawyer community and the judges is that " An ARMY CHIEF called upon the CHIEF JUSTICE of PAKISTAN in his office and presented a refernce agaisnt him and asked him to resign."

it is improtant to know that the govt has a DEPUTY SECRETARY DEFENCE who is incharge of the DEFENCE MINISTRY and that MINISTRY of PAKISTAN includes many INSTITUTIONS including PIA, NDC, KRL , and the ARMY
. So the CHIEF of ARMY STAFF is asnwerable to the DEPUTY SECRETARY DEFENCE who is in turn under the SECRETARY DEFENCE who is one of many SECRETARIES controlling institutions of the govt.

the JUDICIARY is INDEPENDENT, THE CJ is much more respectable than the army chief but , sadly the CHIEF OF ARMY STAFF is donning the president house for past history of PAKISTAN.


their is a romance in the air, because people think, this time maybe maybe ALLLAH WILLING, the rule of law n order will come out to be strong after the legal community has rallied under its flag.
the people can hope that this time they will be free from masked democracy, feudals, dictatorship, n PAKISTAN will come out a stong MUSLIM nation.


so
yes i am with the CHIEF JUSTICE, n i suggest all the patriots to be with the CJ, becuz watever his evils, in the end we have to choose the lesser of the two evils.?

Rehan Rana.

n oh abt the incidents in karachi yesterday?

purely an MQM badmashi against their political rivals, the peoples party and the jamat e islami.

buts MQM is a badamash party.it has a bad history with the pashtuns n unwelcoming locals when they migrated frm india.it was natural for them to develop into a terrorist come political group.

So it has an oppurtunity to do its own will after a long time thanks to musharraf, it isnt going to let go of the power that easily

Rehan Rana,, who ever is that journalist he didnt get anything at all
""First time in pakistans 60 years, the lawmakers n the judicary has stood for the constitution and against dictatorship""
allll wrong,, no one stood FOR the constitution and AGAINST the dictatorship,,,,
y did they stoond against mush just now???? y now???????

these ppl stood FOR the ex CJ, FOR their own benefits,,
Pak mei law n order ki situation sab jante hein,, and these ppl know it even better than us,, our judiciary sys is a piece of ssssssssssssssssssss sugar....
jitne galt faisle yeh log dete hein agar sab k khilaf log kharay hone lagay to ho gaya kaaam
paralazing a whole country for his own sake,, visiting all these cities pooori baraat le k,,, kya matlab hai isss ka ????????????


and yes no doubt,, yesterday's incident is MQM's responsibility
par mqm to hai hi badmash party, unn ka haath kaun rokay ga??? y the honorable ex CJ gave them a chance to create such situation,,, even I was aware of wot gonna happen,,, to baki gadhon ko kuch samajh kyun nahi i


hmm,, hum zara rotiyan daal a'ain pehle,, baki baad mei

first
im Rehan janab.

n as i said, they have stood now bcuz they bled this time, yes, but fer the constitution at least.

He is not visiting fer popular movment, to get the people out, to show to the govt that people are with him. He is visiting the courts at their request, the opposition parties take advantage, but MOST OF THE LAWYERS ARE POLITICAL LEADERS. So the connection is obivious.

anyways i got all the facts right, i dont know wut i didnt get right. They are corrupt yes, every institution has its bad people but as i said the LESSER OF THE TWO EVILS.

We just rebuke any person as wrong bcz we dont want to move our lazy bottoms fer some change.
even now we r just talking n doing nothing. shame on me
shame on ...?


so MQM walo sey bachney key liey baqi gadhey gher bheth jatey, waqi boht barey gadhey hotey, MQM kiu nahi ghar bheti??

oupssssss
rehan rana hehehhee,, hahahahaa.. khekeehkehekhekeee..



welll mqm is a recognised fascist party,,, the others are "apparently" not.. so they shd act in a better way
how can u ask someone badmash and expect him to react otherwise???


taking side of the lesser evil doesnt seem to b a solution to me,,, being against all of them is probably one and obviously not ignoring wots going on

moving our lazy bottoms for a change,, hehhee,, wot type of changes do we want???
mush moved his bottom and seee he changed a lot of things,, zia did the same,, isnt mqm trying to change THINGS too atleast we cant call them lazy...
which one of them is less evil in ur opinion,, hard to decide
im FOR changes,, but I better b sure abt the motivations and the changes we r going to have

as for mqm, present gvt or ex cj
they alll are responsible, they alll are corrupt,, and i condemn their actions equally
boooooooooooooo

bad1 is absolutely right,nobody is saying that c.j is an angel of some sort but atleast he is in this case a victim of power abuse and if the nation has stood beside him atlast,we must not demoralise his supporters.
as to why nobody did it before,well,better late than never,and for your information,the bar has been resisting gen.musharaf's illegal and unconstitutional steps ever since he came to power,nobody noticed it only because the political parties were at that time busy manipulating the situation for their own benefit and so the struggle of lawyers never gained enough public support.but as i said earlier atlast ppl have become active and there is hope that may be this crisis will prove to be a blessing in disguise.as for m.q.m,well,the c.j's visit was announced atleast a weak earlir then altaf hussain announced his rally.the truth is that m.q.m is fast losing its grip over the city and p.p.p and jamat-e-islami are gaining more and more public support ever since the present crisis started,and m.q.m's leadership sabotaged the c.j visit only because they feared it will expose their weak position.
yeh koi logic nahin k badmash to he hi badmash is liay sharif log us k agay sir jhuka dain
jahan tak is baat ka taluq he k which one is less evil,well anyone who is stuggling against dictatorship is certainly no evil in my opinion atleast.
m.q.m and pml-q will pay a heavy price for supporting a dictatorial regime this is certian.

What system these lawyers are fighting for? The system that does not give poor any justice? No matter what the popular belief is, the justice system in pakistan is broken. This system was designed to rule the people, and not serve them. The entire system needs to be modified.

Its sad to see how people try to defend their political party neglecting the fact that the incident resulted in the killings of human beings. Also the fact that their so called parties were carrying guns. tsk tsk tsk. I do not see anyone condemning the indident.

yarr being against ex cj or lawer doesnt mean that im with the present gvt

we have hundreds/thousands of ppl killed, kidnaped, raped, abused.... and no justice for any of them
our whole country s been victim of power abuse since 60 yrs

aik CJ ki hesiyat kya hai 14 KAROR logon k samne

do u guyz really think that in Pak there s a big difference between a dictator and an elected president
I cant see any......


oupsss,, gtg

Ashi, you are right about that. There is no difference between a dictator and the president. The only difference is that political parties cannot vote off the dictator, as he controls army.

Politics in general is very dirty. But the politics in pakistan.ewwwwww... its nasty. I would never want to be the part of that system.

There is a very fine line between what is right and wrong. The things he is accused of are a norm in pakistan. I think he should not have been suspended. If Musharaf was sincere about his actions, he should have worked towards creating the system that stops the behavior for all.

its always easy to criticise and this is what we all have been doing since independence,this time around there is hope that the bench and the bar,supported by the masses will succeed to make a change for the better.i'm one of those who always see a glass as half filled.

What change they are fighting for? What system they are fighting for? They are fighting for nothing. They are marely protesting to support a system that is broken. At the end of the day, these protest will not bring any change, but to get a lot of people killed. Who is going to take care of their kids when they are gone?

Well wha the heck any change good or bad can be brought without a fight in societies like ours ( well all at some point of time) , and i think they are fighting for some sort of good change bu i do agree it will be Hijacked by some elements in the end.

OKKK

lets see when and who will they defend the next time
i ll b with there when they ll stand for the rights of a "normal" lower/middle class paki

Im for a long-term (if not permanent) change

the c.j WAS fighting for normal lower and middle class pakistanis who were abducted by no other than the state.

no one is fighting for normal people in pakistan. Everyone seems to be trying to get somethng for themselves.

It is said that Charity begins at home. If we all start following this rule, we will be able to help lot more people than we think

Well i am worth Rs.237 only right now so this charity must begin from ur home.

If you are implying that I should give you some money, then you are out of luck. I just paid 3K for my ticket to pakistan. I still need money for shopping and stuff .

3k ? which currency ?

the CJ n the laywers r fighting fr judical independence or atleast their hurt egos.
but the awam is HOPING fr a better change, maybe a new honest person on the horizon.
B positive logo, Pakistan mein rehtey nahi ho
u dont understand the feelings here..the situation.

study kero
columns perho
history perho
politics perho
beaurocrats sey milo
majority chah rahey hein
Cj kch kerey, support kerey ge,
Military sey jaan chuutey
proxy govt khatm ho
Shaid behtery aye
is liey dnt sit bad on ur arses n criticize, jst b supportive of it.

nuqsaan to hoga.
ek dafa ka nuqsaan slowly crippling nuqsan sey kahi behter hey

wsey is dafa nuqsan hukumat ney kia
agencion ney kia
aksar wohi keraati heyn.

study kiya hai
observe kiya hai
issi liye kuch kaha bhi hai

Pakistan ko harr uss shaks ne nuksan pohonchaya hai jiss k paas thori si power i hai,, beshak thori deir liye hi sahi,, president se le k police junior constable tak
shayad hum sab log hein hi kam-zarf,,, harr cheez ka nasha dimag pe char jata hai aur phir agay peeche ki hosh nahi rehti



btw yeh ab sara juloooos kidher gaya

Well said Ashii.

kasam sey u people make me laugh.
agar sab ney nuqsan pochonchaya hey to kia is ka matlab hey
key sab sey naraz ho ker ghar bheit jayen???
kissi per trust bhi kerna hey key nahi?
ya phir kissi per trust hi nahi hey?
to phir nation kis baat ki?
khud akelay ko apney aap ko pakistani kaho gey??
ya phir khud ajao humein lead kerney.

lead kerney key liey logo ko follwoing chaiey, esi hi nahi ban jati.


nasha to cherhey ga
akhir pakistani heyn. apney country ki fiker hey
jazbati to hongey


ager apkey pas pakistan ki qismat sanwarney ka koi or hal hey to zurur btaye.

did u read Aysha Siddiqa's new book?
due to which she is being harrased by the SPECIAL BRANCH of the MILITARY INTELLIGENCE and ISI.
the books title.. "MILTARY INC. INSIDE PAKISTANS MILITARY ECONOMY"
she has uncovered facts about the largest military corporate entities , their elitist benifit agenda. The class divisions. Everyone knows it. but why is the intelligence so scared now as to harrass the Kings College London PhD analyst?

The real reason Behind CJ's suspension?
His action against the intelligence related miscounduct, n his strict suport of a free n fair election. Musharraf was afraid the judicary wol oppose his milltary and cilivian president dual status, n the puppet political regime carved out by indeginous ISI help, in utter violation of the constitution.

i remember in oct 2006, i met my uncle, whos a session judge. Not a very honest one, n on not so good terms with the CJ, but he said
" AE BANDA BARA SAKHT AE ENUN SYTEM NEY REHN NAI DENA " (THIS MAN IS NOT FLEXIBLE. THE SYSTEM WILL KICK HIM OUT Refering to CJ)

3 months bfore the suspension, the ISI had started a mobile sms compaign to degrade the CJ. Although the sms were circulated in the political circle more but i saw the Sms's myself


The channels that are showing live coverage of the Cj issue have ben strictly warned n have been banned frm showing programs degrading to the govt and the mUsharity.


The xtremism factor is getting out of control of the intelligence, they r using it to obtain funds frm america. but dnt they realize they r making it more powerful as the xtremist r getting funds frm our enemies.
My army frnd said he saw video footage of highly complex equipment captured frm the extremists camps that had indian brands.


imran khan is off to london for cases against altaf hussain, an intelligent move by him i say.

u connect these few episodes i narrated here n decide fer urself, is too early to be jazbati?? or why dnt we hand our country to foreign elements and lawlessness, n sit back n relax n bath in the false joy of ECONOMIC progress n stability by a GEneral Saab reluctant to admit his mistakes n leave power dignity.

thanks.

Oh n by the way, the juloos is in abottabad.

well said bad1
tum kuch ziada hi ache bache bante ja rahe ho.
jo kuch bad1 ne kaha main us main kuch add nahin kerna chahta,baat sirf yahi he k kuch log yeh samajhte hain k ager sharoo se sab kuch ghalat hota a raha he to ab bhi hone do,lekin jo yahan ground realities se waqif hain un ko pata he k yeh aik MAKE OR BREAK situation he,abhi to sirf media per pabundian lag rahi hain,yahan martial-law ki bhi prediction ki ja rahi he,lekin ab kuch bhi ho jay koi farq nahin perta.
very very honestly main yeh kahoon ga k is dafa general public jitne shaoor aur awareness ka muzahira ker rahi he us ka bahir beth ker andaza nahin kia ja sakta.
karachi main M.Q.M wale chupte phir rahe hain,aj se aik mahina pehle kya koi yeh soch bhi sakta tha k M.Q.Mitni unpopular ho jay gi k vo khud opposition main bethne ki batain karne lagay gi?
abhi aage aage dekho hota he kya
aur ager u cant think positive,atleast pray for those who can.
apni life main pehli dafa yeh umeed paida hui he k shaid is dafa hum aik true democratic society ban jane main kamyab ho jain.