Cast and Marriage

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SohniKuddi

Age: 124
Total Posts: 4493
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Pakistan, Pakistan
Salaam....well this topic is about marriage and how different casts prefer not to give and take rishte from people from "Inferior" casts, I myself think that this is a load of rubbish, you should be able to marry whoever you want regardless of what their ancestors did.

A friend of mine was seeing this guy, they went out for a long time, my friends family were a bit strict, their relationship was a secret for some time, they decided they wanted to marry, but her parents did not want her marrying this guy...why? because his cast was inferior, she was some sort of raja and he was some...erm i dunno how to pronounce it so i'll leave to "he was of inferior cast" people of higher cast tend to look down on others of lower cast, this is condemning that people in this century still belive in casts, and still look at a persons cast before getting their children married. Well, she can no longer see him, and her parents are looking for a "higher cast" husband for her. So what do you guys think?
Posted 04 Jun 2005

guest. says
u knw SD i totally agree!
bt i hve seen around!
evn though parents n childern hve an understandin!
whn it comes to love marriages!
or u knw marriages outside of the cast!
evrythng is forgotten

its seems so unfair!
@ 1 point thy r k0ool wid u!
n nxt min all against ur choice jst coz the guy or gal has a diff cast
Posted 07 Jun 2005

your rite about that. But you know what! wid my expr, parents are not totally wrong. Though some customs are overwhelmings, but in-general, parents most valuable and precious possessions are kids. Well being of kids and their best-interests are at the heart of parents.

Its hard for me to understand that parents who spent sleepless nights to ensure our sound sleep, who fed us before feeding themselves would sacrifice happiness and life of their children for customs and caste. They usually insist on methods and customs that have produced relatively satisfactory results. While outcome of love affairs and kids emotional involvements remains an uncentain and unforeseen future with little or no proven success tract.
Posted 07 Jun 2005

guest. says
hmm ..thts true!
bt it can b said tht arrange marriages or marraiges widin the cast would b successful!
thts also a gamble!
no1 can knw abt future!
thn shudnt there b some kind of method or a way!
new generation can express their point of view!
widout parents gettng all angry n stuff!

Posted 08 Jun 2005

Well, that's why experienced people go for tested methods. Younger gen have always thought of older one as strict and orthodox. One who can mix the experience of old with energy of young, flourishes longer and enjoys the fruits of it. One who's impulsive, whose gains are shor-lived and less fruity.
Posted 08 Jun 2005

according to islam, i dont care about casts within muslims.

this is really nonsense.

in such a situation of clash, i even would not do, what my parents want me to do. sach kehne ya karne se agar kissi ka dil tootte, to tootte. and it doesnt matter, ke ammi abbu ka hai dil yeh nazuk sa ya kissi aur ka.

One who can mix the experience of old with energy of young, flourishes longer and enjoys the fruits of it.
mashallah, fully agreed with this Smooth D


Note about my this opinion
Posted 08 Jun 2005

SohniKuddi says
WELL, PARENTS ARE NOT THINKING OF THEIR CHILDRENS HAPPINES...THEY OUGHT TO SWALLOW THEIR PRIDE AND ALLOW THEIR CHILDREN TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES, WE COME FROM A CULTURE WITH STRONGLY BIASED VIEWS, PRIDE COMES FIRST BUT HAPPINESS IS NOT ENSURED. I THINK THESE VIEWS WILL SHADOW OUR CULTURE MAYBE FOREVER, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE BITTERNESS FOR THE LOWER CAST. "YOUR ANCESTORS USED TO SERVE MY ANCESTORS HENCE U ARE INFERIOR"

SEE, HOW DO WE KNOW THAT THESE VIEWS WILL NOT REFLECT ON THE YOUNGER GENERATION, IF CHILDREN ARE TAUGHT THAT THE ARE OF "BETTER CAST" THAN HIM OR HER, THEY ARE GOING TO GROW UP BELIEVING THAT IT'S TRUE, I HAVE COME ACCROSS MANY MY OWN AGE WHO BELIEVE THAT THIS IS COMPLETELY NORMAL, IT'S NOT SEEN THE ISLAMIC WAY.


YES CHILDREN ARE DRIVEN BY THEIR EMOTIONS, THEY DON'T SEE THIS ISSUE AS A PROBLEM, PARENTS SHOULDN'T EITHER. SO HOW MANY OF US CAN GO OUT ONE DAY AND FIND SOMEONE WHO HAS ALL THE QUALITIES YOU WANT INCLUDING THEIR CAST.

PARENTS SAY "YOU HAVE THE CHOICE OF CHOOSING YOUR LIFE PARTNER" BUT THEN THE SMALL PRINT "AS LONG AS THEY ARE OF SUPERIOR CAST" THEN THAT ISN'T EXACLTY YOUR CHOICE IS IT?
Posted 08 Jun 2005

S-Kuddi - I didn't know about such strong existence of cast system in paki society until recently. I denounce it outrightly -- clearly violates basic tenets of islam. Why do we than point fingers at cast system among Hindus I feel ashamed for we have returned to JAHILIYAH instead of stepping forward.

Now, parents pride stand ahead of children's happiness might be true too. Obedience of parents is obedience of Allah and only exception to that is when they invite you share partners with Allah. One may argue that violation of Islamic principle can be valid excuse for disobedience. This argument is not valid. However, Islam does not prevent children from expressing their views and disagreement with parents. We have been advised in the Quran and hadith how to address parents, thus we should take excessive caution before we present ourselves. Our arguments, speech and tone of it in no way should cause hurt to their hearts.

Choosing life-partners based of love affairs and physical attractions are newly learned behaviors from movies and influences from non-Islamic cultures and values. This way of life has brought serious problems in societies where it has been in practice for long time. Now we are trying to adopt similar ways just because westerners do it. Our hearts are gripped in the clutches of the materials of the world and thus fullfilment of its requirements become greater obligaions for us.
Posted 08 Jun 2005

SohniKuddi says
LOL,, NO I DO BELIEVE THAT WHEN CHOOSING ONES PARTNER IT MUST BE DONE IN A HALAL WAY, THIS WAY PARENTS MUST HAVE A SAY, ISLAM ALLOWS US TO HAVE A SAY IN OUR MARRIAGE, THIS DATING AND SEEING NON MEHRAM AS IN SOCIETY TODAY IS NOT PROHIBITED IN ISLAM. I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS IS THE WAY TOWARDS FINDING A LIFE PARTNER, OUR PARENTS MUST CONSENT TO OUR MARRIAGE CHOICES.

"OBEDIENCE TO PARENTS IS OBEDIENCE TO ALLAH" THIS IS TRUE, YOU MUST NOT GO AGAINST YOUR PARENTS WISHES, THIS I AGREE WITH, BUT ONE MUST ALSO THINK OF ONE WELLBEING, THEIR OWN FUTURE AND IF PARENTS PUT THEIR PRIDE BEFORE YOUR HAPPINESS WHAT WOULD YOU DO IN THAT SITUATION?

YOU HAVE TO UNDERSATND THAT THIS IS A MAJOR ISSUE IN PAKISTANI SOCIETY, NOT ONLY WHERE I LIVE BUT ALL OVER THE WORLD, EVEN IN PLACES WHERE SOCIETY IS BUILT AND VIEWS ARE MODERN. YOU MAY THINK IT ONLY EXISTS WHERE EDUCATION IS POOR AND SOCIETY IS LESS ECONOMICALLY ADVANCED, BUT IT EXISTS EVERYWHERE. THE HINDU RELIGION CONSISTS OF CASTS, ONE CAN ONLY SEE THIS THIS AS AN INFLUENCE...MAYBE THIS IS WHERE THE PAKISTANI CAST SYSTEM ORIGINATED? WHEN PAKISTAN AND INDIA WHERE NOT TWO BUT ONE NATION?

I'M NOT REALLY SURE BUT SOME TRADITIONS AND VALUES ARE REFLECTED FROM THIS ERA, MAYBE THE CAST SYSTEM IS ALSO ENCOURAGED FROM THE HINDU TRADITION.
Posted 08 Jun 2005

SohniKuddi says
WE MUST NOT CONFUSE RELIGION WITH TRADITION, CAST IS A TRADITIONAL ISSUE AND NOT A RELIGIOUS ISSUE, WE CANNOT SAY THAT BECAUSE HINDUS BELIEVE THIS IS A RIGHT DOING AND SO DO MUSLIMS. THIS IS WHERE PROBLEMS ARISE, PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT THIS IS ISLAMIC RULE, WHERE IT IS JUST A WAY OF THINKING (PAKISTANI)
Posted 08 Jun 2005

guest. says
i so agree to ths thng!

sohni said:

CAST IS A TRADITIONAL ISSUE AND NOT A RELIGIOUS ISSUE



so true!
Posted 08 Jun 2005

SohniKuddi says
YES, IT IS EASY TO GO WRONG HERE, THIS IS EASILY MISUNDERSTOOD.
Posted 08 Jun 2005

BadShaH1 says
wuts ur caste sohni!
Posted 09 Jun 2005

SohniKuddi says
LOL BADSHAH....HERE I AM POORING MY HEART OUT SAYING CASTS SHUDNT BE THE ISSUE AND YOU GO AND ASK THE UNASKABLE


Posted 09 Jun 2005

You are absolutely right about children having freedom to accept or reject a proposal and to express their dissent, particularly in matters of their future an life.

SohniKuddi said:

WE MUST NOT CONFUSE RELIGION WITH TRADITION, CAST IS A TRADITIONAL ISSUE AND NOT A RELIGIOUS ISSUE



Sorry Sonni, you are wrong there. Islam is a complete way of life and nothing stands out side of its folds.

Islam came to eradicate unjust traditions and practices. Burying girls alive was a tradition in pre-Islamic Arab society. Islam aborted that tradition with injunctions against that practice.

Cast system is dead wrong whether practiced in the name of religion or tradition, in Pakistan or in India or elsewhere. It is a system of ignorance.

Posted 09 Jun 2005

SohniKuddi says
SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING S.D. IS THAT CASTS IS AN ISLAMIC ISSUE...AND THAT IT IS TRUE TO SAY THAT "MUSLIMS BELIEVE IN CASTS"

I MUST DISAGREE WITH YOU HERE.
THE BURIAL OF CHILDREN IS A COMPLETELY UNRELATED MATTER, WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT BELIEVING IN CASTS IS NOT ENCOURAGED BY OUR RELIGION.
Posted 09 Jun 2005

SohniKuddi said:

LOL,, NO I DO BELIEVE THAT WHEN CHOOSING ONES PARTNER IT MUST BE DONE IN A HALAL WAY, THIS WAY PARENTS MUST HAVE A SAY, ISLAM ALLOWS US TO HAVE A SAY IN OUR MARRIAGE, THIS DATING AND SEEING NON MEHRAM AS IN SOCIETY TODAY IS NOT PROHIBITED IN ISLAM. I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS IS THE WAY TOWARDS FINDING A LIFE PARTNER, OUR PARENTS MUST CONSENT TO OUR MARRIAGE CHOICES.



Dating and seeing non-mehram is absolutely prohibited in Islam - Islam offers other alternatives.

"OUR PARENTS MUST CONSENT TO OUR MARRIAGE CHOICES", they have no obligation to consent to our marriage choices but they have the right to dissent to our marriage choices.
Posted 09 Jun 2005

SohniKuddi said:

SO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING S.D. IS THAT CASTS IS AN ISLAMIC ISSUE...AND THAT IT IS TRUE TO SAY THAT "MUSLIMS BELIEVE IN CASTS"

I MUST DISAGREE WITH YOU HERE.
THE BURIAL OF CHILDREN IS A COMPLETELY UNRELATED MATTER, WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT BELIEVING IN CASTS IS NOT ENCOURAGED BY OUR RELIGION.



I guess I was not clear in my expression. I didn't say that. What I meant to say was, there is no issue that Islam does not address. Islam does not recognize the cast system, it rather rejects it and calls for equality.

I referred to burying children example only to show Islam tackles traditions of oppressive nature. In short, there is nothing that is traditional falling out of Islams span.
Posted 09 Jun 2005

guest. says
Smooth_daddy said:

they have no obligation to consent to our marriage choices but they have the right to dissent to our marriage choices.



huh!

SD..tell me 1 thng!
isnt it bad tht parents impose their decision!
Posted 09 Jun 2005

it's not just bad, its wrong! we can't make one right out of two wrongs.
Posted 09 Jun 2005

guest. says
wht does tht mean!
now i m confused

explain plz!
Posted 09 Jun 2005

meaning, its wrong for parents to impose their decisions and it is also wrong for kids to impose their decisions upon parents.
Posted 09 Jun 2005

guest. says
okies i get it!
bt now the qs?s is how to avoid it!!!
come to think abt it!..Islam does not recognize the cast system
thn how come parents are so in favour of it!
i mean..thy r experienced n ofcourse moreeeee educated abt ISlam thn childern r!

Posted 09 Jun 2005

BadShaH1 says
wuteva

i think dat some of the core features r depicted in the castes, they do take the traits they r famous for
Posted 10 Jun 2005

kash_beauty said:

thn how come parents are so in favour of it!
i mean..thy r experienced n ofcourse moreeeee educated abt ISlam thn childern r!



They may be educated but do not practice it or they may have forgotten it yet they are maintaining status quo.

Pakis in general are racist but they don't accept it. Younger generation with greater awareness and better practice of their religion can reduce cast and other racial problems.

When an oppressive system is imposed upon people, after while they break through it. No matter how much we preach parental respect, some hard headed youngsters will defy it and break all bounds of culture and tradition. If you want to change the system, let your children exercise freedoms you lacked. Remember, freedom has its limits and a price.
Posted 10 Jun 2005

SohniKuddi says
OH....I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN SMOOTH DADDY, (ISLAM REJECTS CASTS AND CALLS FOR EQUALITY)


LOL AND I ALSO SEE THAT I HAVE MADE A MISTAKE IN MY POST AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE, WHERE IT SAYS THAT ISLAM DOES NOT PROHIBIT THE MEETING WITH A NON MEHRAM, SORRY GUYZZZ I WILL EDIT IT.
Posted 10 Jun 2005

guest. says
Smooth_daddy said:

They may be educated but do not practice it or they may have forgotten it yet they are maintaining status quo.

Pakis in general are racist but they don't accept it. Younger generation with greater awareness and better practice of their religion can reduce cast and other racial problems.

When an oppressive system is imposed upon people, after while they break through it. No matter how much we preach parental respect, some hard headed youngsters will defy it and break all bounds of culture and tradition. If you want to change the system, let your children exercise freedoms you lacked. Remember, freedom has its limits and a price.



ok!now ths brings somethng else up!..
bt i wud make a topic abt tht
thn u can tell me there!

thanx SD
Posted 11 Jun 2005

cutefriend says
SohniKuddi said:

Salaam....well this topic is about marriage and how different casts prefer not to give and take rishte from people from "Inferior" casts, I myself think that this is a load of rubbish, you should be able to marry whoever you want regardless of what their ancestors did.

A friend of mine was seeing this guy, they went out for a long time, my friends family were a bit strict, their relationship was a secret for some time, they decided they wanted to marry, but her parents did not want her marrying this guy...why? because his cast was inferior, she was some sort of raja and he was some...erm i dunno how to pronounce it so i'll leave to "he was of inferior cast" people of higher cast tend to look down on others of lower cast, this is condemning that people in this century still belive in casts, and still look at a persons cast before getting their children married. Well, she can no longer see him, and her parents are looking for a "higher cast" husband for her. So what do you guys think?




hmmmmmm yeh u rite its a major fault in our society
but abhi bahut time lagye ga ager ham is ko repair bhi karyen
suppose
ager main kisi aur cast ki larki se shadi ker ke yeh fault repair kerna hcaoo to merye parents is ki bahut khilafwarzi karyen gayen kyoon ke woh old era ke log hian
aur may be us larki ke parents bhi essa karyen
wesye ager ham is ko repair kerna hcaye to ker saktyen hian but ham try nahi kartye yehi bari prblm hia
Posted 14 Jun 2005

You should have stomuch to stand opposition and pressure if you want to go against the norms.
Posted 15 Jun 2005

SohniKuddi says
THERE WILL ALWAYS BE OPPOSITIONS IF WE TRIED TO MAKE ANY MOVE TOWARDS "DEMOLISHING" THE IDEA OF CASTS. I DON'T THINK ANYONE CAN MARRY INTO A DIFFERENT CAST WITHOUT HAVING FREINDS AND RELATIVES MAKING STORIES OR FINDING WAYS TO DEGRADE YOU....IT'S LIKE TABOO OF THE PAKISTANI VIEW.   
Posted 16 Jun 2005

BadShaH1 says
GodSpeed in ur quest sohni!
Posted 17 Jun 2005

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