Cast and Marriage

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SohniKuddi

Age: 124
Total Posts: 4493
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Pakistan, Pakistan
Salaam....well this topic is about marriage and how different casts prefer not to give and take rishte from people from "Inferior" casts, I myself think that this is a load of rubbish, you should be able to marry whoever you want regardless of what their ancestors did.

A friend of mine was seeing this guy, they went out for a long time, my friends family were a bit strict, their relationship was a secret for some time, they decided they wanted to marry, but her parents did not want her marrying this guy...why? because his cast was inferior, she was some sort of raja and he was some...erm i dunno how to pronounce it so i'll leave to "he was of inferior cast" people of higher cast tend to look down on others of lower cast, this is condemning that people in this century still belive in casts, and still look at a persons cast before getting their children married. Well, she can no longer see him, and her parents are looking for a "higher cast" husband for her. So what do you guys think?
Posted 04 Jun 2005

SohniKuddi said:

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE OPPOSITIONS IF WE TRIED TO MAKE ANY MOVE TOWARDS "DEMOLISHING" THE IDEA OF CASTS. I DON'T THINK ANYONE CAN MARRY INTO A DIFFERENT CAST WITHOUT HAVING FREINDS AND RELATIVES MAKING STORIES OR FINDING WAYS TO DEGRADE YOU....IT'S LIKE TABOO OF THE PAKISTANI VIEW.   



That's so true but there are other ways to start the process of change.

Support someone who married outside the cast or norms of family (Muslim only). Advocate for try to get support within family for ones who were casted out etc.
Posted 17 Jun 2005

SohniKuddi says
BadShaH1 said:

GodSpeed in ur quest sohni!



ERRRR THANK YOU...
Posted 18 Jun 2005

LiL_DollY says
SohniKuddi said:

Salaam....well this topic is about marriage and how different casts prefer not to give and take rishte from people from "Inferior" casts, I myself think that this is a load of rubbish, you should be able to marry whoever you want regardless of what their ancestors did.

A friend of mine was seeing this guy, they went out for a long time, my friends family were a bit strict, their relationship was a secret for some time, they decided they wanted to marry, but her parents did not want her marrying this guy...why? because his cast was inferior, she was some sort of raja and he was some...erm i dunno how to pronounce it so i'll leave to "he was of inferior cast" people of higher cast tend to look down on others of lower cast, this is condemning that people in this century still belive in casts, and still look at a persons cast before getting their children married. Well, she can no longer see him, and her parents are looking for a "higher cast" husband for her. So what do you guys think?



3 simple words
This is Haram

You know...Islam allows us to marry anyone who is Muslim...whether...black, white, mexican, african, chinese.

So why is it that parents cant just drop the rubbish tradition of marrying within your cast. I can relate to this situation very much so. My fmaily thinks this way. Especially my dads fmaily. Although...my mothers fmaily is a bit more...open about things.

The new generation to get married in my fmaily. Has married out of their cast. And I hope many more marirages to come will be same also.

Someone has to break the tradition. We are the next generation so why not be us.
Posted 01 Jul 2005

LiL_DollY says
who cares if the guy is rich or poor...
as long as he has knowledge about islam...
he's kind hearted
generous
and loving.

Posted 01 Jul 2005

There's nothing like someone in the family can stand wid ya dolly!
I wld take a step further - knowledge and practice of the deen (in a balanced way)
Posted 01 Jul 2005

SohniKuddi says
LiL_DollY said:

SohniKuddi said:

Salaam....well this topic is about marriage and how different casts prefer not to give and take rishte from people from "Inferior" casts, I myself think that this is a load of rubbish, you should be able to marry whoever you want regardless of what their ancestors did.

A friend of mine was seeing this guy, they went out for a long time, my friends family were a bit strict, their relationship was a secret for some time, they decided they wanted to marry, but her parents did not want her marrying this guy...why? because his cast was inferior, she was some sort of raja and he was some...erm i dunno how to pronounce it so i'll leave to "he was of inferior cast" people of higher cast tend to look down on others of lower cast, this is condemning that people in this century still belive in casts, and still look at a persons cast before getting their children married. Well, she can no longer see him, and her parents are looking for a "higher cast" husband for her. So what do you guys think?



3 simple words
This is Haram

You know...Islam allows us to marry anyone who is Muslim...whether...black, white, mexican, african, chinese.

So why is it that parents cant just drop the rubbish tradition of marrying within your cast. I can relate to this situation very much so. My fmaily thinks this way. Especially my dads fmaily. Although...my mothers fmaily is a bit more...open about things.

The new generation to get married in my fmaily. Has married out of their cast. And I hope many more marirages to come will be same also.

Someone has to break the tradition. We are the next generation so why not be us.


EXACTLY MY POINT, YOU SEE IF OUR PARENTS CAN'T SWALLOW THEIR PRIDE, IF OUR PARENTS DON'T LISTEN TO "LOGON KI BATEIN" THERE IS NO SIN IN MARRYING OUTSIDE YOUR CAST, OR INTO ANOTHER RACE, AS LONG AS THE PERSON IS MUSLIM, (OR FOR MALES PEOPLE OF THE BOOK)

YES SO THAT NEW GENERATION THAT HAVE MARRIED OUT OF THEIR CAST...DO PEOPLE SAY STUFF ABOUT THEM BEHIND THEIR BACK DOLLY? I MEAN DO PEOPLESAY STUFF LIKE "THEY CAN'T FIND A GOOD HIGHER CAST RISHTA SO THEY MARRY INTO A LOWER INFERIOR CAST?" COS THATS WHT I'M SAYIN U KNOW THAT PPL TEND TO SAY STUFF, WE HAVE THE SAME PROB HERE, MEMBERS OF OUR FAMILY LOOK DOWN ON PPL WHO GET ARE IF INFERIOR CAST, AND IF NE1 MARRIES INTO A LOWER CAST GOSSIP STARTS FLYING AROUND AND THAT PERSON IS ALSO SEEN AS INFERIOR, WE DON'T HAVE THE FREEDOM OF CHOSING WHO WE WANA MARRY COS OF CAST. I'VE DISCUSSED THIS A LOT WITH PPL WHO BELIEVE AND SUPPORT THE CAST SYSTEM BUT THEY SEEM TO BELIEVE THEY ARE RIGHT AND THAT IT'S DESTINY LOLZ.

YES IT IS HARAM, I MEAN WE SHOULD BELIEVE IN EQUALITY, WE ARE DIVIDED AS MUSLIMS INTO SCHISMS AND ALSO US PAKISTANIS ARE FURTHER DIVIDED INTO CASTS, SO WHERES THE EQUALITY?

ERRM ABOUT THE GENERATION THING, DO WE HAVE THE GUTS? I MEAN IS THAT WE DON'T CARE ABOUT PPLS WORDS? I KNOW WE MUST DO THE RIGHT THING BUT WON'T THE BELIEFS OF OUR PARENTS AND FAMILIES BE REFLECTED ON THIS GENERATION ALSO, I EXPLAINED IN AN EARLIER POST ABOUT THIS AND IT SEEMS THAT SOME PPL OF OUR GENERATION STILL DO BELIEVE THIS.
Posted 02 Jul 2005

SohniKuddi says
LiL_DollY said:

who cares if the guy is rich or poor...
as long as he has knowledge about islam...
he's kind hearted
generous
and loving.



YUP, TRUE, YEAH ALSO AGREE SD.
Posted 02 Jul 2005

LiL_DollY says
Ill give you a real good response l8tr
for now SOhni you and Me rocking in the same boat





and smooth daddy you sound like an educated
and smart man...


take care...

dolly
Posted 02 Jul 2005

somebody thought in another forum that I was dumb and didn't even have 4th grade education.

Thanx for your compliments
Posted 05 Jul 2005

SohniKuddi says
LOLZZ WHERE DID THEY GET THAT IDEA

SO GO ON DOLLY WHAT WERE U GONA SAY?
Posted 05 Jul 2005

SohniKuddi said:

...WE HAVE THE SAME PROB HERE, MEMBERS OF OUR FAMILY LOOK DOWN ON PPL WHO GET ARE IF INFERIOR CAST, AND IF NE1 MARRIES INTO A LOWER CAST GOSSIP STARTS FLYING AROUND AND THAT PERSON IS ALSO SEEN AS INFERIOR, WE DON'T HAVE THE FREEDOM OF CHOSING WHO WE WANA MARRY COS OF CAST. I'VE DISCUSSED THIS A LOT WITH PPL WHO BELIEVE AND SUPPORT THE CAST SYSTEM BUT THEY SEEM TO BELIEVE THEY ARE RIGHT AND THAT IT'S DESTINY LOLZ.

YES IT IS HARAM, I MEAN WE SHOULD BELIEVE IN EQUALITY, WE ARE DIVIDED AS MUSLIMS INTO SCHISMS AND ALSO US PAKISTANIS ARE FURTHER DIVIDED INTO CASTS, SO WHERES THE EQUALITY?

ERRM ABOUT THE GENERATION THING, DO WE HAVE THE GUTS? I MEAN IS THAT WE DON'T CARE ABOUT PPLS WORDS? I KNOW WE MUST DO THE RIGHT THING BUT WON'T THE BELIEFS OF OUR PARENTS AND FAMILIES BE REFLECTED ON THIS GENERATION ALSO, I EXPLAINED IN AN EARLIER POST ABOUT THIS AND IT SEEMS THAT SOME PPL OF OUR GENERATION STILL DO BELIEVE THIS.



Those who believe in such divisions and breakdowns hold their customs and traditions above divine injunctions. Almighty did not create some men superior to others except those who exceled in worship and obedience to His Supreme Majesty. "O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes that you may know one another." not that one is superior to the other. Those who look down upon other humans do not understand the wisdom of God: "O you who believe! Let not a group scoff at another group, it may be that the latter are better than the former. "

Then how did some people think they are better than others and their cast is superior to others? its mere arrogance of one group thrusting their authority upon others and ignorance of the other people who accept former as superior.

Posted 05 Jul 2005

SohniKuddi said:

LOLZZ WHERE DID THEY GET THAT IDEA

SO GO ON DOLLY WHAT WERE U GONA SAY?



I may have said something that did not conform wid what they were doing - challenged status quo!!
Posted 05 Jul 2005

LiL_DollY says
Sighing...such a serious topic. But it's something thats happeneing right now...right this minute.

Sohni I hear your concern. AS you are saying that people of our generation go along with the cast tradition.

GirlFriend who you talking about.

All the folks in my family ...young folks. Well I know they dont think like this at all.

When I used to live with my parents. All the gals in my family would get together at my aunt's house with all our friends once a month.

Together we would pray and read quran and hadith. We would discuss issues and so on.

And being Paki is an issue period.

In my community there are the typical pakistani gossip makers. BUT WERE WILL YOU GET IN THE WORLD IF YOU KEEP OBSSESSING ON WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK AND SAY. Yes, I knwo that it hurts sometimes especially when hteir sayingstuff about you. But what will they get out of talkking ***t about their Muslim Brother or Sister behind their back.

Im not a goodie too shoo myself. I believe no ones perfect. But, I think before I say something. If I cant say it to the pesons face then I try not to say it at all.

Yes, I mean...I told you that alot of the newer genration folks are marrying a differetn cast. Or my moms fmaily has some MExican, African-American, Costa Rican, Caucasion, and Indian. SO were a lil diverse. Its mostly the old grandmas, and grandpas...that have more of an issue with it. I remember my grandma saying...that girl married a white guy. And I didnt say anything but inside I said to myself. Well that white guy was also Muslim.

People change when they become educated.

Just compare our fresh of the boat paki peeps with the educated paki peeps that live abroad...and tell me do you notice the diffrence.

Posted 05 Jul 2005

LiL_DollY says
Smooth_daddy said:

somebody thought in another forum that I was dumb and didn't even have 4th grade education.

Thanx for your compliments



Well...I believe the other person was wrong.

Usually when someone puts someone else down its because they themselves have low self esteem.
Posted 05 Jul 2005

We are tangled up in petty issues and gossips and left important things unattended. I agree wid ya dolly that we get nothing from talking behind others.

One White Muslim guy made the statement in public: "Muslims are racists". An African Muslim guy asked us once, would a Pakistani father (family) marry their daughter to a black African even if he's the most righteous and best person there could be? Are you kidding me! Punjabi will not marry with Sindhi and Sindhi will avoid Mohajirs and ... what chance a black African stands? Who cares about piety and goodness!

Happiness is not the only issue. Pride, honor, ego, wealth, life style, customs and traditions and the list goes on with how to please everybody and then comes happiness of the couple while goodness, piety, and righteousness are extras.

Today, people are just falling for love before marriage. This is racially blind but also religiously blind. Excessives in either ways are harmful.

There has never been a greater need for reversing the above sequence than ever in past couple of centuries to say the least.
Posted 06 Jul 2005

LiL_DollY says
I like your responses...Mr. Smooth...

I become speech less
cause I have nothing to say...

Everyhting you say is true...

Posted 06 Jul 2005

cutefriend says
apun sab post read ker ke batye ga
Posted 07 Jul 2005

Dolly, You may know this White since you are from North. I'll PM you his name.
Posted 07 Jul 2005

SohniKuddi says
LiL_DollY said:

Sighing...such a serious topic. But it's something thats happeneing right now...right this minute.

Sohni I hear your concern. AS you are saying that people of our generation go along with the cast tradition.

GirlFriend who you talking about.

All the folks in my family ...young folks. Well I know they dont think like this at all.

When I used to live with my parents. All the gals in my family would get together at my aunt's house with all our friends once a month.

Together we would pray and read quran and hadith. We would discuss issues and so on.

And being Paki is an issue period.

In my community there are the typical pakistani gossip makers. BUT WERE WILL YOU GET IN THE WORLD IF YOU KEEP OBSSESSING ON WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK AND SAY. Yes, I knwo that it hurts sometimes especially when hteir sayingstuff about you. But what will they get out of talkking ***t about their Muslim Brother or Sister behind their back.

Im not a goodie too shoo myself. I believe no ones perfect. But, I think before I say something. If I cant say it to the pesons face then I try not to say it at all.

Yes, I mean...I told you that alot of the newer genration folks are marrying a differetn cast. Or my moms fmaily has some MExican, African-American, Costa Rican, Caucasion, and Indian. SO were a lil diverse. Its mostly the old grandmas, and grandpas...that have more of an issue with it. I remember my grandma saying...that girl married a white guy. And I didnt say anything but inside I said to myself. Well that white guy was also Muslim.

People change when they become educated.

Just compare our fresh of the boat paki peeps with the educated paki peeps that live abroad...and tell me do you notice the diffrence.



I'M NOT TALKING OF ANYONE IN PARTICULAR, BUT I HAVE COME ACCROSS YOUTHS THAT STILL BELIEVE WHAT THEIR PARENTS TAUGHT THEM ABOUT CASTS. I'LL REPLY IN FULL LATER, I GOTTA GO NOW
Posted 07 Jul 2005

LiL_DollY says
SohniKuddi said:

LiL_DollY said:

Sighing...such a serious topic. But it's something thats happeneing right now...right this minute.

Sohni I hear your concern. AS you are saying that people of our generation go along with the cast tradition.

GirlFriend who you talking about.

All the folks in my family ...young folks. Well I know they dont think like this at all.

When I used to live with my parents. All the gals in my family would get together at my aunt's house with all our friends once a month.

Together we would pray and read quran and hadith. We would discuss issues and so on.

And being Paki is an issue period.

In my community there are the typical pakistani gossip makers. BUT WERE WILL YOU GET IN THE WORLD IF YOU KEEP OBSSESSING ON WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK AND SAY. Yes, I knwo that it hurts sometimes especially when hteir sayingstuff about you. But what will they get out of talkking ***t about their Muslim Brother or Sister behind their back.

Im not a goodie too shoo myself. I believe no ones perfect. But, I think before I say something. If I cant say it to the pesons face then I try not to say it at all.

Yes, I mean...I told you that alot of the newer genration folks are marrying a differetn cast. Or my moms fmaily has some MExican, African-American, Costa Rican, Caucasion, and Indian. SO were a lil diverse. Its mostly the old grandmas, and grandpas...that have more of an issue with it. I remember my grandma saying...that girl married a white guy. And I didnt say anything but inside I said to myself. Well that white guy was also Muslim.

People change when they become educated.

Just compare our fresh of the boat paki peeps with the educated paki peeps that live abroad...and tell me do you notice the diffrence.



I'M NOT TALKING OF ANYONE IN PARTICULAR, BUT I HAVE COME ACCROSS YOUTHS THAT STILL BELIEVE WHAT THEIR PARENTS TAUGHT THEM ABOUT CASTS. I'LL REPLY IN FULL LATER, I GOTTA GO NOW


Yeah...My cousins that were born in pakistan...seem to follow the paki tradtitons

But my cosuins born and raised here have their own ideas. Some cousins raised here...have come to their senses too.

Before we know it these biases are Inshallah gonna be gone.
Posted 09 Jul 2005

We were given this blessing of one nation, one creed, one people united under the banner of La Illaha Il lAllah..., above divisions and far above racism. WE took a plunge into the depths of that filth.

Europeans are uniting, American are united, we are divided along geograophic lines, ethnic lines, lingual and cultural lines and denominational lines. We are killing each other and busy in petty things.

I am so glad to see western Muslim youth is rising above those lines.
Posted 12 Jul 2005

i htink this is wrong casue evry1 is a persaon in ther eown right but we should not discraminte them just because they are smaller in money matters or whateva

i myslef had alot of this prob over the last few years cause like ur u mentioned thta u know sum1 who weanted to get married but i dont understand why its so important to have materail things in life isnt luv honesty trust and resoect go anything to oc**t fir but inshaklah noiw i am married and of course after marriage the bacha oparty arrive and i am going to teach my kids that its no point listening to parents or eder plz in ur family al the time cause they not always rite i wna teach them to make ther own decuions and whateva they do in profesional or personla life i wil l support them cause i nev ahad the chance to go the uni inish my colleg or get a opioninon in my life but inshalah i wnat evry1 who wil read this to mak esure that the next generation understands whats right and wrong cause i htink we need to turn al thi shate into luv and respect for each other

marraige sare made in heaven so who are we to decide that who is good an dbad for us so i disagree on such marriages but unfrotunley what can i do am stuck in one of them

anyhowz that was sumthing baout hwtas i thouhgt i dont mean to offend any1 its just my thouhgts
Posted 03 Aug 2005

Blue Oasis says
SohniKuddi said:

Salaam....well this topic is about marriage and how different casts prefer not to give and take rishte from people from "Inferior" casts, I myself think that this is a load of rubbish, you should be able to marry whoever you want regardless of what their ancestors did.



Hmm, I think Sayed families should only marry into other Sayeds. It shouldn't matter for other casts.

Where things like money and property are concerned, stupid and materialistic thinking

Money isn't something constant, good principles matter though, and if they are decent and rich - well great!
Posted 04 Aug 2005

and why is that? can you please expland on it!
Posted 04 Aug 2005

Blue Oasis says
Smooth_daddy said:

and why is that? can you please expland on it!



You mean about Sayeds marrying Sayeds? Well I've heard that some of them believe on keeping their bloodline as pure as they can out of respect, since they are decendants from the Prophet's (pbuhahp) line

That doesn't mean that they never marry outside, but I've noticed it's rare.

I've also heard, not sure from where, that "apnay Sayed honay pay be nahi garoor karyna chahiya." but I think it is in reference to not thinking lowely of non-Sayeds, not about marrying them.

We take the Prophet's (pbuhahp) life as an example of how to live, and he married his daughter (as) into his own family, it is an example for us to give prefrance to eligible people in the family before looking outside.
Posted 04 Aug 2005

...and the Prophet marrie dtwo of his daughters to Uthman RA. He married daughters of Abu Bakr RA and Omar RA. Prophet SAW didn't make that distinction. There are no gaurantees that syeds are always good. i have known many who were the worse than non-syed bad ones.
Posted 04 Aug 2005

Blue Oasis says
ofcourse, there are good and bad people everywhere.
Posted 05 Aug 2005

So what's more than basic decency, morals, character and the practice of the "DEEN" are the criteria for selecting spouses?
Posted 05 Aug 2005

valandrian says
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