Allah hum sab par reham karay, it is very terrible.

tv main kahaan batatay hain such, shaid is liye kay sab sach bata dain tu log ziada preshan ho jain gay

Look at this, formatting with tags:

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And this one, formatting without bothering about tags:

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You can see which one is more comfortable. WYSIWYG also shows us instant preview of what we are posting.

thats what i am saying. we have to put tags either manually, by buttons, or by prompt, and then place text within them proerly. for smaller posts it doesnt matter, but as the post size increases it becomes troublesome. let me explain it by screenshots...

one week ho gaya post kiye ko, lagta hai kisi ko bhi samajh nahi aya

waisay ye topic wol kay liye tha, laikin ab pata chala kay sick hain is liye online nahi aa rahay, i hope unhain zaroor samajh aa jaye gi, he is a genious.

and for others information, when we post a topic or reply to a topic and write our post, we have to put tags like [ b] and [ /b] to make text bold and [ i] and [ /i] for itallic and so on. on a wyswyg editor we dont have to put tags, instead select the text and click a button to achieve the desired effect, and its so simple to write a neat post without having to worry about tag placement.

Oh, sorry i forgot the Sentiments forum

The Messenger of Allah said: "Whoever observes night prayer in Ramadan (taraweeh) as an expression of his faith and to seek reward from Allah, his previous sins will be blotted out." (Muslim)

SALL said:

traveeh to nafil hote hein
nahi ??

Taraweeh is confirmed and emphaised Sunnah (Sunnah al Moakidah) of our Holy Prophet. There is no doubt or difference of opinion upon it.

nikama said:

Taraveeh ko sunnat-e-moakida ka darja hasil he.although the holy prophetp.b.u.h.discontinued it for the convenience of muslims but hazrat umar in his tenure restarted it as sunnat.but Badal can tell more...

The Holy Prophet didnt discontinued it, he discontinued praying it in congregation (Jama'at), as he feared that it might be made mandatory (Fard) for Muslims. After his death, the fear of Taraweeh becoming mandatory was impossible. So Hazrat Umer ordered Muslims to say Taraweh in congregation. Praying it in congregation is also Sunnah, as the Companions of the Holy Prophet did prayed it behind him in congregation.

Smooth_daddy said:

I think I didn't phrase it right? I am aware of taraveeh's importance; I am concerned with the way it is performed. The general mind-set is to finish Quran in Taraveeh whether you understand a word of it or not.

My question then, what's the use of it? What do you benefit? Everything is for blessings - last of the virtues of any worship. Why do we want to settle for crumbs when we can have the cake?

Just like we recite Quran in other prayers, we recite it in Traweeh too. The only difference is that we recite complete Quran in 30 or 27 days in taraweeh (sometimes, horribly fast, but it is another issue).

We cant understand a word from Quran while listening to it in Obligatory prayers, so Traweeh is no exception.

The use of it and its benefit, blessings and virtues are the same as for other Sunnah prayers (that is, reward from Allah), but are multiplied due to Ramazan.

Another benefit is that, the people who cant read Quran (arabic), they get a chance to obtain blessings and virtues of recitation of whole of Quran by listening to it in Traweeh (whether they understand it or not).

Ofcourse, we should learn Quran and not just recite it, specially in this blessed month of Ramazan. Perhaps thats what you mean, otherwise your post is quite ambiguous.

This topic should be in "Rendezvous".

There is a link on top "Profile" to do that.

It is much pleasing to see your quest for the truth. But isnt it a fact that overlooking these matters wont show the truth either? There do exist some differences between deobandies and brelvis, and they are of minor nature, and should not be bothered about. Also, getting associated with any of them isnt necessary (its better to not label yourself as brevli or deobandi).It should be noted that they both are followers of the same Imaam of Fiqh, so how come there be severe differences? (But I too still have some reservations on brelvi side).

What you said in rest of your post, i should summarize and arrange it as: Imaams interpreted the Quran and Hadith (no, they learnt it from Sahaba, Sahaba were their primary source) according to the best of their knowledge and wisdom. But they were after all human beings, no one can say that one or the other is absolutely right on all matters. Now we have access to more Ahadith, we have more worldly knowledge at our disposal to correctly interpret those matters that relate to practical lives of us all in this age. So we should compare and reconcile their works, and try to reach a consensus regarding our religion.

This is only a single question, Should we follow Imaams (Ulil Amr, relegious scholars) or should we interpret the Quran and Ahadith ourselves if we do not satisfy with their rulings?

I assume you didnt properly read my opinion about this issue in my last post or just overlooked it, as I already answered these questions there. Please read it carefully and let me explain a little more. I already presented two Quranic verses in which Allah orders us to follow the Islamic Scholars instead of relying on our own understanding.

"O you that have imaan, obey Allah and obey the Rasul and those given the authority to command (Ulil Amr) from among you." (Holy Qur’an 4:59)

And:

"Fas aloo Ahl al dhikri in kuntum laa ta’lamoon (Ask Ahl al-Dhikr if you do not know)." (Holy Qur’an, 16:43)

I also asked a question that if everyone can rightly interpret the Quran and Ahadith, then why Allah needs to send Prophets to us? Look whay Allah says:

"He is the One who raised up among the unlettered, a Messenger from among themselves who recites to them the verses, and purifies them and teaches the Book and the Wisdom." (62:2)

Note carefully, he didnt send Prophet to recite His verses only, but also to TEACH them the Book and Wisdom. We cant interpret it correctly by just reading it, but by LEARNING it and LEARNING wisdom. It is obvious that a SELF taught engineer can be an engineer, a SELF taught doctor wont be called a doctor, similarly the knowledge and wisdom comes by learning from a teacher not by reading. Arnt we be denying Allah otherwise?

Look from another perspective. If someone say to you 'open up Quran, theres written do not come near Namaz while you are intoxicated, so intoxicants are fobidden only for Namaz and not otherwise'. So why should you not follow the Quran and consider the drinking lawful? You will have to read full Quran and Ahadith to find the answer. Ordinary people simply cant do that they will have to ask the Knowledgeable for it. We have to learn whole Quran, Ahadith, Usool, and much more to make an opinion about a matter. Now see what our Prophet said about the people who have already done that work:

"The best people are those living in my generation (Sahaba), and then those who will follow them (Tabieen), and then those who will follow the latter (Taba Tabieen). Then there will come some people who will bear witness before taking oaths, and take oaths before bearing witness." (Sahih bukhari)

Best in what? Best in their beliefs, deeds, and understanding of Islam. Our Imaams were Tabieen and Taba Tabieen. Now some people ask us to reject the rulings of these best people and interpret the Quran and Ahadith according to what seems better to us. It is ridiculous. How can we compare ourlseves to these people whose righteunous has been attested by our own Prophet? Its just a deception of the Devil who wants to take us away from the guidance.

Shaytan also whispers in our minds that now you have more resources, more collection of Ahadith, so you can make "better" laws for your new generation yourselves. Its a deception only as what we have was also at that time, if it wasnt then how it reached us? Also they LEARNT Quran and Ahadith from Sahaba who were the students of our Prophet, and our Prophet direcly learnt from Allah. That is not the case with us. A i explained earlier knowledge comes by learning, not just by reading. And who can claim to be a better teacher than our Prophet and his companions? You know Shaytan whispers in minds, while Allah shouts.

Shaytan also decieves us by saying that they were after all human beings, so they can make error. Its can be, but not where the interest of the whole of his Ummah and Islam is concerned. As our Prophet said that his Ummah will never gather on the wrong. In the hadith i mentioned above our Prophet himself attests their righteonous.

Look at another Hadith that shows the necessity of following (earlier) People (the scholars) not just Books:

"Verily, Allah does not take away knowledge by snatching it from the people, but (this is done) by causing (the death) of the scholars until none of them is left alive. People would then appoint ignorant leaders for themselves who would be consulted in matters of religion and they would give Fatawas without knowledge, falling into misguidance and misguiding others." (Sahih Muslim)

This hadith proved two things. 1) Knowledge is in hearts of Ulemas, when they will die knowledge will be taken away. Quran will be there, books of Ahadith will be there, but no knowledge. Knowledge of Quran and Sunnat transfers through the hearts of Scholars. 2) After the death of early Ulemas, people will appoint ignorant leaders for themselves, what is going on now. So we have a very good reason to follow our rightly guided early Scholars instead of today's leaders or our own perceptions.

Yet another deception from the Devil, that Prophet asked us to follow Quran and Sunnah but you are following these Imaams sayings, as he said:

"O mankind, I am leaving two things with you, if you cling to them you will never go astray. The Book of Allah and my way of life." [Al-Haakim and Al-Baihaqi]

We are indeed following Quran and Sunnah in its best form, as Quran and Sunnah are not the names of Books, it is the message of Allah and His Prophet's path, its the knowledge of Deen, which has reached us through these rightly guided people. We read Quran and Sunnah from Books but learn from them. Also they didnt say anything at their own, but by Quran and Sunnah. People now say, do not learn Quran and Sunnah from them (these people who got the certificate from the Prophet of being best amomg his Ummah, will misguide you), instead read it yourself and act according to your own interpretations.

I hope you will be satisfied now. Another thing you mentioned is the issue of divorce. I should mention it that there is no difference of opinion about it in all of the the Imaams. Several hundered years after them, some ignorant people created some confusion about it.

Wallahu A'lam.

rapunzel said:

Badal said:

Nice post

Bas Ayat meaning "Insaan ko apnay nafs par baseerat hasil hoti hai" ko ghalat quote kia hai.

i donnt think so jis ko nafs per control nahin woh kuch bhi bidaat deen mein nikaal sakta hai

i said the same. perhaps aap nay topic parha nahi.

the author said kay jab ikhtilaf nazar aye tu apna dil say pooch lay kay kia sahi hai kyunkay Allah said kay insaan ko apnay nafs par baseerat hasil hoti hai. tu main nay kaha kay its wrong, ye ayat ghalat quote ki gae hai, yahaan is ki jaga banti nahi, aur liya bhi out of context hai. jis kay ko deen ki samajh nahi hogi wo ulta aur bidatain nikalay ga.

BadShaH1 said:

wardi utrey key to coffin pehney ga

nikama said:

our history says that those who come in uniform get burried in uniform.remember Zia?

i was pointing about two things:

1- wardee say aisay chipak gaya hai kay lagta hai wardee sath hi le kar jani hai qabar main bhi

2- there is a tradition kay "shaheed" ko usi dress main dafnaya jata hai jis main shaheed howa ho, and you know if someone again attacks on him and he gets passed away them he will be considered a "shaheed" by our people in power

What happened? Please convey in words, not in smilies. They are not always helpful.

Yours now point of view is a little different with what anyone can interpret from your first post. Remember you mentioned "99 qualities of Kufr". There was not even a clue to "difference of perception only". I explained only what was obvious from your post, and I think SD took the same meanings as i have taken. And still, difference of perception regarding beliefs may also lead to kufr. So its doesnt make much difference.

Yes, you are right regarding the issues mentioned (but all are not mere perceptions). These issues have been exaggerated (mostly by common people who do not have much knowldge and some so-called scholars) but still i dont think they call others kafirs just because of this, though they consider others as have gone astray.

As all of us Muslims believe that Allah created Hazrat Muhammad much before creating this whole universe and the earth. We do not know how was he, but obviously he wasnt a Bashar as the first man was Adam. So we call him Noor to describe him. When he came to the earth he came in the form a real Man, but his originality (what we call Noor) didnt lost, but was covered by Manhood. In this world his Bashariyat was prevalent, and sometimes his Nooriat was prevalent (his existence before the creation of this world, and his ascention to the heavens on Lailatul Isra' are examples). So both concepts of his bashariyat and nooriyat equally justify. Now its fault of the human misunderstanding (specially of the common people) that cause such differences. Most prominent scholars didnt differed on this issue. Whenever it has been made an issue, it is the fault of lack of knowledge. (However, if someone claims that his Noor was a part of Allah's Noor or a shadow of it, as some people claim today, then he has really gone astray and needs to be condemned, as he is denying Quran. Allah say, nothing is like him, lest being a part. It will be considered a belief contrary to Islam and may cause Kufr. Look, here comes the difference.)

The issue of following an Imaam is quite different. It requires a full length topic to explain it. I will just touch it. It is indeed necessary to follow 'Ulil Amr' (literally, people who have given authority, and it means, according to Hazrat Abdullah inbe Abbas, the Ulema of Islam and Fiqh). Allah says:

"O you that have imaan, obey Allah and obey the Rasul and those given the authority to command (Ulil Amr) from among you." (Holy Qur’an 4:59)

And:

"Fas aloo Ahl al dhikri in kuntum laa ta’lamoon (Ask Ahl al-Dhikr if you do not know)." (Holy Qur’an, 16:43)

Allah didnt say open up Quran and books of Ahadith and follow according to your own interpretations, instead he said obey Ulil Amr and ask Ahle Zikr of what you do not know. These are the people who learnt the real interpretations from their teachers, the teachers of whom were eventaully our Prophet who learnt from Allah directly. Just a single question is sufficient to open up anyone's eyes. If anyone can rightly interpret what has been revealed to us, then why Allah needed to send a Prophet to us? Instead he could just give us a Book explaining everything and thats all. Can anyone answer it?

Regarding to our four Imaams of Fiqh, in addition to the above, we should also remember that our Prophet said, my Ummah will never gather on the wrong. At time of these Imaams there was not a single Muslim who was not a follower of any of them, neither was there any belief that was contrary to all of them. So it became the consesus of the Muslim Ummah that whoever goes against them now will go astray. Obviously if Muslims at that times were not on wrong, then essentially whoever goes against them should be on wrong.

Now the fact is that the followers of these Imaams do not cosider non followers as kafirs, however if they go against Imaams they condider them gone astray (sect 'fi zalalah', not kafir). But you know there are some extremists too, specially the so-called Ulemas who are fond of giving rulings on such delicate matters.

Nice post

Bas Ayat meaning "Insaan ko apnay nafs par baseerat hasil hoti hai" ko ghalat quote kia hai.

Assalam o alaikum, and Thanks SD!

Where you disagreed, you didnt get me there. Look at what i wrote, i said "even force if necessary" not that "always force". Where it is necessary, i think it should also be described (it was my error using "force" without "clear" explanation, i didnt think anyone could get it in a wrong way).

Firstly, the post was about Muslim sects, not about believers and disbelievers. You said "Allah SWT gave an open choice to people to either believe or disbelieve", i agree, but this is for the choice between relegions, meaning no one can be forced to embrace Islam. This is not the case here. Here the mentioned people are those who call themselves Muslims. Now if a Muslim believes in something or does something that is againt Islam (which may or may not make him a disbeliever) then it may affect

1- himself and his personal life
2- Islam and muslim society

As long as his act is concerned to himself only, he cannot be forced to reject his beleif/act. But if it affects Islam and the society, it is the responsibility of every Muslim and the people in power in particular to stop him. He cannot be allowed to harm Islam and other Muslims and the society. It is not very difficult to understand. Our Prophet himself ordered us "if you see something happening evil stop it by hand, then by tongue...". He said "whoever respected an Innovator, he helped the Innovator in destructing the building of Islam". He ordered us to break relations with such people, isnt it also an example of force for changing beliefs? Last three of the four examples i given in my last post are "clear" examples of spreading the truth and emiminating falsehood and disbeliefs by FORCE. Muselma and his followers were forced to abandon their belief, and were eventually killed. Hazrat Abu Bakar forcefully took zakaat from the rejectors. Hazrat Ali killed those people who changed the meanings of Quranic verses (Inal hukmu illa lillah) and misinterpretted it. What else examples can anyone want? This is indeed a balanced approach between rejection and extremism. We do not interfere in anyone's personal life, not allow anyone to harm Islam and Muslism by their evil beliefs and deeds.

In fact that applys to non-muslims too. If they try to pollute our society with evil beleifs and deeds, we will forcefully stop them, whether anyone like it or not.

Wallahu A'lam.

agar "Busharrif" nay wardee utar di tu aur kuch pehana bhi shaid nasseb na ho, isi liye tu nahi utar raha

i think wardee kay sath dafan honay ka irada hai

Assalam o Alaikum,

Starting from the title, "ONLY GOD KNOWS WHO IS RIGHT", i disagree. It should be "Allah knows the BEST who is right". And we also believe that "ONLY Allah knows who he will send to the Heaven or the Hell". These two statements were misleadingly combined into "Only Allah knows who is right". Allah has given us His Book and knowledge to judge who is right and who is wrong. Didn't our Holy Prophet pointed out several times who is right or wrong? It will be clear shortly.

nikama said:

Holy Prophet(p.b.u.h.)once said that if a musim calls another a kaafir,one of them is surely a kafir...meaning that if the accused is not ,the accusor is.

You didnt provided any reference or source. but you will see how it itself goes against you own words. Continue...

nikama said:

Imam Abu Hanifa has said that if u find 99 qualities of kufr in someone and only one of Imman,ignore the 99 and believe the one.

Now imagine if some has a 990 (99 x 10) qualities of Imaan, but he labels some other Muslim as Kafir who is not indeed a kafir. Then according to the Hadith you mentioned above he himself will be a kafir. Now what about his 990 qualities of Imaan? Why cant you accept him as a Muslim now? Hadith compels you to reject the 990 qualities, isnt it? I didnt say Imaam abu hanifa is wrong, i will explain it latter.

nikama said:

a reknowned socialist writer/columnist Raja Anwar once carried out a research on the various FATWAS levelled against each other by the ullemas of diff.sects.he concluded that all these FATWAS carry some weight,so if we take all these FATWAS to be true,then there is perhaps not a single muslim today on the face of the earth.ALLAH muaaf karay....

Now again take the above hadith. If you believe in it (and in its meanings which you are taking), then surely no one here is Muslim now. Think about it. (dont worry hadith will be explained latter)

nikama said:

behter yahi hota hay ke apna aqeeda choro nahin...kisi ke aqeeday ko chero nahin for only Almighty knows who is right and who is wrong.

This shows extreme lack of your knowledge, brother. Allah Himself asked us to guide (and even force if necessary) people to the right. He didnt say "Only me know who is right and who is wrong, so dont talk about it nor touch anyone's beleifs". Is it "better" to deny Allah's orders? How will you justify the Qunaic verse:

"Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors." Al-Imran [3:110]

We do know by the will of Allah what is right and what is wrong thats why He has ORDERED us to enjoin what is right, forbid what is wrong. Do you think He ordererd us to do so, without giving us knowledge?

Come to the above Hadith now. You misinterpretted this Hadith and the statement of Imaam abhu hanifa too. The word Kuffr itself needs explanation. Kuffr means "Denial or Rejection" Someone may deny a fundamental belief of Islam or deny to perform certain act of Islam, here comes the difference. By an example, our Prophet said who intentionaly gives up the Prayer (Namaz) surely does a Kuffr (Kufr in literal meanings). But he is a Muslim, you can well understand it. However if someone denies the obligation of Namaz then he will surely a Kafir (Kufr in metaphorical meanings, a non muslim). The Hadith means that "If anyone says onother Muslim muslim a kafir, and if the other one is not indeed kafir, then he committed an act of Kuffr (not that he turned into a non Muslim)". Imaam abu Hanifa's statement mean the same, he said even you see 99 qualities of Kuffr (the Kuffr that does not take him out of the fold of Islam), look at his better qualities even a single one and consider him a Muslim.

Such teachings of Islam ensure that no one is falsely accused of being kafir. While at the same time Islam ensures we do not consider a person a muslim if his Kufr is evident. Cosidering a Kafir a Muslim will also result in kufr.

Here are some more examples:

1- Al-Kafirun:

"Qul ya ayyuha alkafiroon" (Say: O disbelievers!) [109:1]

Allah ordered us to say Kafir to who are indeed kafir.

2- At the time of our Prophet, the Muselma Kazzab just got out of the fold of Islam because of his clain of prophethood, and he was previously a Muslim indeed. Where his rest of islamic qualities gone after that? (They were ruined by his act of Kufr) And still upto today if even a big Muslim commits such a lie, we deem him as Murtid and wajib ul katl.

3- After the death of our Prophet when some people denied Zakaat, Hazrat Abu Bakar deemed them as Murtid and fought with them and killed them untill they accepted the truth again. Where were all of their Islamism gone after rejecting just one fundamental of Islam (Zakaat)?

4- At the time of Hazrat Ali when some people accused him of denying Quran (and infact they thereselves commited this sin by wrongly interpretting an Ayah and rejecting another one), Hazrat Ali fought with them and put all of them to death because ther were Murtid. Our Prophet himself said about them that soon there will a group of people before whom you will consider deeds very small, but they will be as out of Islam "jaisay kamaan say teer nikal jata hai". Now look how pious there were, but were out of Islam due to rejecting a single Ayah despite of accepting rest of the relegion in full.

None of them said "we dont know who is right" neither said "do not touch anyone's belief" and nor said "leave them at their own", instead they tried to erradicate the evil as soon as possible. There are hundreds of examples, but this should be enough for the wise.

The bottomline is that we are not allowed to leave people at their own to harm our relegion and spread the evil, and nor should we do. Muslim Scholars in the past spent their whole lives in protecting this relegion from the pollution of evil beleifs.

The real problem today (which i have observed) is that some scholars make a hurry to labeling someone as kafir, without proper investigation. And it becomes more miserable when they accuse whole the group/sect of kufr if they found something suspicious about anyone of their renowned leaders/scholars. For example taking a sentence from Ashraf Ali Thanwi's book (and taking it out of context or taking their own meanings sometimes) and labeling the whole of his sect as kafir. Or taking a act of Imaam Raza and without thinking of justifying it, label their whole sect as kafir. And also even their followers do not believe in what was suspicious about them they are considered as kafir by others. It is really miserable.

"you think". its a rumour only, aur confusion create karnay kay liye is tarah rumours ka paida hona natural hai.

you know agar witness nay statement change ki hai tu phir usay bhi saza milay gi kisi ko mot ki saza dilwanay ki. itna asaan nahi hai statement change karna.

aur teesri baat, sarbajeet ki apni confession kay baad kisi witness ki importance rehti hi nahi. what do you think?

Ab aap say baat nahi ban rahi tu pehli baat ko chor kar doosri taraf rukh mor rahi hain, chalo kuch tu samajh aya.

laikin ab aap jhoot aur deception ka sahara le rahi hain apnai kuch batoon ko durust sabit karnay kay liye, let me point out your lies and deceptions:


1) "our whole country is been funded and supported by non muslims gvt,, since last 60 yrs"

right to some extent, laikun main tu institutions ki baat kar raha tha madam, aur main nay AKU ki example di thi, na kay WAPDA ki. can you tell me kon say local (rum by muslims) institutes ko funds miltay hain directly non muslim govts say? just give me some examples. its a clear deception.


2) "koi new sys, or law aise hi pass nahi ho jate,, burai apne hi society mei ho to bahir ka koi aa k kya teer maar le ga"

again a lie and a deception, aap ko kis nay kaha kay koi law pass hua hai? kuch tu Khuda ka khof karain. this a decision of some mischievous people in the govt. na tu koi bill national assembly main pesh hua (sirf isi dar say kay reject ho jaye ga) na hi kisi authority ya logoon say is baray main opinion liya gya. kia saboot hai aap kay pass apni baat ka?

If you say kay govt kay log bhi humaray hi elect kiye huay hain, tu again you are wrong, neither we elected Mush nor his govt. jis tarah wo "select" huay hain yahaan sab jantay hain. aur agar 2, 4 log koi decision power ki base par sab par musallat kar dain tu sab ka decision nahi ban jata.


3) "yeh aik do articles chaap dene se,, aur thore se naare maar dene se kuch nahi hota"

how can you say this? aap ko wahaan bethay Ilhaam hota hai kia? pehlay yahaan aa kar dekhain phir is baray main koi baat karain. yahaan rozana articles chaptay hain aur statements aati hain, stkikes hoti hain. aur madam inhi ka asar hai jo abhi tak buhat kuch control main hai.


4) "may b pak k zyada log apne bachon ko yehi taleem dena chahte hon"

ye "may b" aap apnay tak mehdood rakhain. dosroon kay baray main aap ko aisa kehnay ka koi haq nahi hai, apnay ko kon be hayyayi ki taleem dena chahta hai? soch samajh kar bola karain.


5) "log to apni jaan maar k paise laga k apne bachon ko pvt schools (jo k hein hi foreign schools)"

again a big lie, who said that kay sab pvt schools foriegn hotay hain? pvt schools to wo hotay hain jinhain govt run nahi karti aur jinhain mostly govt say funds nahi miltay. aap nay tu definition hi badal di. you mean ye jo lakhoon school jo local people run kar rahay hain wo bahir say uth kay aye hai ya unhain foriegn countries kay funds miltay hain? what an ignorance!


6) "the most famous pvt schools (jahan apne bachon ko admission dilwane liye log hazaron ki rishwat dete hein) unn ka islamic course to pehle bhi gvt schools wala nahi tha"

8th class ki Islamiyat Lazmi, govt aur sab pvt schools ki aik hai, jis say baghair agay add nahi milta, Matric ki Islamiyat Lazmi, govt aur sab pvt schools ki aik hai, jis say baghair agay add nahi milta, FSc ki Islamiyat Lazmi, govt aur sab pvt schools ki aik hai, jis say baghair agay add nahi milta, BSc ki Islamiyat Lazmi, govt aur sab pvt schools ki aik hai, jis say baghair agay add nahi milta. aap kis ki baat kar rahi hain? A and O levels? tu how many schools ye courses karwatay hain aur kitnay log kartay hain. just 1% par apply honay wali baat ko aap nay baqi 99% par bhi apply kar diya. had hi kar di.


i think itna kafi hai, ist it?

haan, aik baat reh gae, "merit ka matlab samajhte hein aap ?????" yes ofcourse. so show me the merit of AKU, kitna hai just tell me? i will show you a hundred intitutes jin ka merit AKU say ziada hota hai.

SALL said:

i never take side of wrong,,, im trying to find out the truth
khud ko sahi sabit karne ka sab se asaan tareeka hai k doosre ko galt sabit kar do
and this is wot we always do

you are trying to find out the truth, aur tareeka ye ikhtiyaar kia hai kay "do not talk about what is lie and truth", amazing..

aur '1' ko '2' say kam sabit kar do, ya '2' ko '1' say ziada, result aik hi niklay ga, isnt it? if two people differ tu aik ko ghalat sabit karain to doosra sahih sabit ho jata hai, ya aik ko sahih sabit karain tu doosra automatically ghalat sabit ho jata hai. result is the same. where is the difference?

SALL said:

72 sects,, agree
but yeh hadees complete nahi hai
inn sects mei se sirf 1 sachai pe hoga,, yeh bhi kaha gaya hai,, aur sachai pe wohi hoga ko Quran aur Sunnah k raste pe rahe ga
khud ko SUNNI keh dene se hum sache nahi ban jate

yes ofcourse khud ko Ahle Sunnah kehay say hum truly Ahle Sunnah nahi ho jatay. i meant the sect who is truly on Quran and Sunnah.

SALL said:

our education sys s never been supervised by 'correct ppl'
agha khan univ is the only paki med inst jiss ka degree poori dunya mei recognised hai,, agar woh log galt hein to unn ka mukabla unhi k tareeke se karo,, aise "reliable" institutes hone chaiye jahan hamari influence zyada ho,,

never been supervised by 'correct ppl', but also never been supervised by such a 'wrong ppl'. and we are not capable of bearing more degradation in our education system that may pollute the minds of our young generation and directly influences our society.

can you tell me why agha khan uni "ki degree poori dunya mei recognised hai"? No!
can you tell me why it has been supported and funded by non-muslim govenments? No!
can you tell me why our govt want it to supervise our edu sys when we have from non-muslim governments, and not before it? No!

If yes, then the only answer is "their edu sys is in compliance with western standards of profanity and vulgarity" ya phir ye kay "wo aasman say utray hain".

If you talk about the discipline, to madam aap kab dekha discipline wahan? have you ever visited AKU? come here and i will show much more discline in just the GCU lahore. door beth kar batain karna buhat asaan hota hai, jin kay sar par parti hai unhain hi pata hota hai haqeeqat ka. AKU nay tu apni asliyat pehlay din hi dikha di hai. Just bring the question paper AKU distributed in students some days ago and read it. 2 din tak sharam say (agar ho tu) moo par say surkhi nahi jaye gi.

SALL said:

koi galt hai to iss pe discuss ki jati hai,, apne points batae jate hein doosre k sunne jate hein,, phir kahin ja k faisla hota hai
aap ne to seeedha seedha statement de di

tu kis kaha kay se sab nahi hua, centuries guzar chuki hain is baat ko, gharhay murday ukharnay ka kia faida. still if you want to dig it up again, you are free to do so. pooch lain directly un say, un kay materials say consult kar lain, sab kuch aasman ki tarah saaf hai.

SALL said:

khair,,, once i read a joke k pehle zamane mei Islam k daire mei dakhil kiya jata tha,, ab nikala jata hai
keep on trying

aur jo log khud nikal jatay hain un kay baray main kia khyal hai? zahir jo log apnay beleives change kar lain gay, apna rasta badal lain gay, wo hi nikal jain gay, nikalay ga kon. jab koi differ karay ga tu aik na aik tu khud hi niklay ga, chahay aap isay nikalna hi keh lain aur khoob hansain.

Note that there is no concept of "Natural Disaster" in Islam. We believe, Allah punishes people for their evil deeds so that they may repent and turn towards their Lord.

Allah says in the Holy Quran:

"And We sent not the signs except to warn" [Al-Quran, al-Israa' 17:59]

and ALLAH (SWT) also has stated in the Quran:

"Evil (sins and disobedience of Allah, etc.) has appeared on land and sea because of what the hands of men have earned (by oppression and evil deeds, etc.), that Allah may make them taste a part of that which they have done, in order that they may return (by repenting to Allah, and begging His Pardon)." [Al-Quran Al-Room, 30:41]

We cannot stop Allah's Wrath. Instead we pray, may Allah be compassionate to them (meaning, guide them to the right path and make them His obedient servants) and make them able to deserve His mercy.

Usually, closed topics are only found in 3 (first two and the last) forums. And usually, all opened and new topics remain on top and on the first page. And also they do not significantly count towards page loading.

And again, all topics should be in their correct place and not be mixed up in a forum for easy finding.

So it does not seems necessary to get an extra headache for moving the closed topic to a sorage forum (my opinion only).

Mod koi online nazar ata hi nahi, busy hain sab shaid aajkal

Anyways, you should report (using the Report icon) the post you find objectionable. It will help the mods and admins.

Very nice work. However, two things should be mentioned:

1- Intikhara is only allowed for Permissible actions for which there is neither reward nor punishment (Mubah). There is no Istikhara against Farz, Sunnah, Mustahab, Makrooh and Haraam actions.

2- It is not necessary that you get a dream or even a "feeling." Rather, the istikhara is a prayer that Allah guide you towards that which is best for you. If you truly consign the matter to Allah and suspend your own inclinations, then Allah will make events unfold in the direction that is the best for your worldly and next-worldly affairs.

A "dream" may be from the Devil (as Bad dreams are from the Devil) and a "feeling" may be a result of your own inclinations towards/against the matter.

Agree to new_beau.

And Sall, you always get irritated when there is a talk about diffrenciating right from the wrong saying "you are spreading sectarianism" etc. Distinguishing right from the wrong and sticking to the right is the responsibility of every Believer. No one have a right to remain in darkness. Can you (or, do you) claim such a right?

Our Prophet already told us about splitting the Ummah in 73 sects, not for that we close our eyes like a Kabootar when we see them, instead to recognize them, refute them and stick to right sect (Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamat). And this is because of endeavours of the true followers of the Prophet on his order that this count will be restricted to 73, or otherwise if we close our eyes and let everyone do their work that that could be upto 73,000.

SALL said:

8 : rafa yadei kya hota hai ?????

"Rafa' Yadain" means dono hathoon ko buland karna. aur ye kehtay hain Namaz main takbeer kehtay huay hath kanoon tak uthanay ko. pehli takbeer par tu sabhi hath uthatay hain magar ruku main jatay aur uthtay huay bhi kuch log hath uthatay hain. Imaam e Azam abu Hanifa kay nazdeek rafa yadain na karna afzal bulkay zaroori hai, aur Imaam Shafi kay nazdeed karna afzal hai.

SALL said:

10 : mayyat ko sawab pohonchta hai iss pe shak nahi but its sounds strange,, kya koi bura shaks k gunah sirf iss liye kam ho jate hein kyun k uss k marne k baad log uss k liye Quran pak parhein ??
wot if kissi k liye yeh sab karne wala na ho ??

why not? kia ye itself uski aik khoobi nahi kay wo apnay peechay aisay log chor kar gya hai jo us kay darajaat ki bulandi kay liye sadqa o khairaat kartay hain? aur agar banda itna hi gunahgaar hai kay us kay apna bhi us say door bhagtay hoon tu zahir phir kon aisa karay ga.
agar kisi kay liye yeh sab karnay wala koi na ho tu phir ya tu ye uski kamzoori hai, ya phir uski kismat.

SALL said:

jo cheez me ne notice ki,,, jiss k paas zyada paise hein woh utne hi zyada khatam/kherat karwata hai
to iss ka matlab yeh hua k..............................

i agree, aajkal log sirf shuhrat kay liye ya riwaaj samajh kar society main apni naak oonchi rakhnay kay ziada khatam/kherat etc kartay hain jin main dikhawa ziada hota hai aur nyyat kam.

aur sadqa/kherat kay liye koi din makhsoos nahi like teesra, daswaan, chaliswaan, barsi etc. ye tu kisi bhi wakt kiya ja sakta hai.

SALL said:

jabri talak kya hoti hai ???

jabri tallak means divorce by force, for example agar kisi larki kay parents usay tallak lenay par majboor karain.

There is a Sahih Hadith about it, i dont remember the refference, the words are "teen afa'al har haal main waqa' ho jatay hain, Nikah, Tallak, aur Itaaq"

Here Itaaq means ghulaam ko azaad karna. and we believe kay tallak agar halat-e-nazaa main bhi di jaye tu waka' ho jati hai. similarly wo nikah jo wali ki marzi kay baghair kar liye jaye.

1)

Your translation: "And Muhammad is but a messenger. Verily all Messengers have passed away before him. If then he dies or is slain, will you turn back on your heels?"

You tranlate this aya as "... all messengers has passed away (i.e. died) before him...". Instead of saying ‘passed’ you said 'passed away' (i.e. died). You say that while all the Prophets before Hazrat Muhammad SallAllah-o-Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam have died, so Christ has also died.

Where in any arabic dictionary "khalat" or "khalo" has been translated as "death" or "to die"? It is absolutely wrong to translate it as "death". If it means death, then how should you translate:


Is it "this is the sunnah of Allah that died (or ended) befofe you"? If you translate it as this the next part of this ayah falsify your translation as:


that is, "you will not find any change in the sunnah of Allah". Allah's sunnah does not change, die or become non-existant. So "khalat" does not mean death. Here it means "rehna", "chalay ana". Its translation is "yahi Allah ki sunnat rahi hai (ya chali aa rahi hai) tum say pehlay say".

Similarly, means "koi ummat nahi magar is main daranay wala huwa ho ya bheja gaya ho", means "tum say pehlay bhi kai dastoor hotay rahay hain", means "hotay rahay hain un say pehlay bhi rasool".

At another place Allah says:


Does here khalat mean that all the nations before him has died and vanished from the face of the earth? Absolutely not! yahood o nasara were present. Allah Himself mentioned the by saying ahle kitab, ahle injeel and ahle tourat.

It seems reasonable to mention here that rejectors of the life of Hazrat Masih do beleive in the life of Hazrat Mosa and say that he is alive in heavens (Noor ul Haq, Rohani khazain, vol 8, page 69):


Now they excluded Hazrat mosa from their interpretation "Verily all Messengers have passed away before him". If Mosa could be excluded then why not Masih? It is a clear example of their 'dajl' and 'faraib'.

Assalam o Alaikum,

It is miserable that nobody could give a satisfactory answer to the original question, that is, these ayah contrdict our belief on the life of Hazart Masih. I will try to explain these ayah one by one, and show you the TEHREEFAAT the rejectors of Hayat-e-Masih has made in the interpretation of these ayah, InshaAllah.

Very informative Q & A's

However i differ on at leatst these 10 issues:

1- imaam kay peechay surah fatiha parhna (we should stay silent)
2- wali ki marzi kay baghair nikah (nikah marzi kay baghair bhi ho jata hai)
3- jabri tallak (tallak har haal main ho jati hai)
4- taweez (taweez use karnay main koi qabahat nahi agar us main ghair islami words nahi hain)
5- ikathi 3 tallak (ikathi 3 tallakain valid hoti hain)
6- "ya" nabi/rasool (bolna jaiz hai agar ye akeeda nahi hai kay wo khud directly sun rahay hain ya mojood hain)
7- Nabi ko Allah ka deedaar (he did see Allah on Mairaj)
8- namaz main rafa yadain (rafa yadain nahi karna chahiye)
9- traveeh 8 rakat (traveeh 20 rakat hai aur sunnat say sabit hai)
10- mayyiat ko sawab puhanchana (mayyiat ko tilawat e quran aur sadaka ka sawab puhanchta hai)

in sab issues par ikhtilaf hua hai. aik group kay belief ko dosray kay args sunay baghar durust tasleem kar lena na insaafi hogi. i will very briefly discuss just first issue.


Surah Fatiha Behind Imaam:

1- Rasulullah (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) is reported to have said: "When you begin your congregational prayers, straighten your rows. Thereafter when the Imaam says the takbeer (i.e. when he says Allahu Akbar aloud) you must also say the takbeer. When he begins the recital of the Qur’an, you must remain silent. And when he recites walad daul leen then you should say Aameen". By performing your salaah in this manner Allah Ta’ala will love you." [Muslim; ch. on tashahhud]


2- It is reported from Hazrat Ataa Ibn Yasaar (radhiallahu anhu) that he questioned Hazrat Zaid Ibn Thaabit (radhiallahu anhu) concerning reciting Qira’at with the Imaam. Hazrat Zaid (radhiallahu anhu) answered: "There is no recitation of the Glorious Qur’an in any salaah behind the Imaam". [Sahih Muslim, chapter on Sujood-ut-Tilaawah, Hadith 577]


3- Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Umar (radhiallahu anhu) used to repeatedly say: "Whoever performs salaah behind the Imaam, the Imaam’s qiraat suffices for him". (Sunan Baihaqi; chapter on not reciting qiraat behind the Imaam — Imaam Baihaqi (R.A.) has stated that this Hadith is Sahih.)


4- Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Umar (radhiallahu anhu) was asked: "Must the muqtadi recite behind the Imam?" He replied that the qiraat of the Imaam is sufficient for the muqtadi. But if he performs salaah individually, then he must recite qiraat. It was the practice of Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Umar (radhiallahu anhu) also that he would not recite surah fatiha behind the Imam. (In Aathaarus Sunan (Vol. 1 pg.89) this Hadith has been classified as sahih).


5- Hazrat Jaabir (radhiallahu anhu) narrates that the one who does not recite sura fatiha even in one rakaat, his salaah is not valid. However, if he is behind an Imam he must not recite surah fatiha. (This Hadith has been classified as hasan — Tirmizi). It is on the basis of this Hadith that Imaam Tirmidhi (R.A.) has narrated from Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (R.A.) [who was the teacher of the ustaad of Imaam Bukhari (R.A.)] that the narration "Whoever does not recite surah fatiha his salaah is not complete" refers to one who performs his salaah alone. It does not include the muqtadi (Jami’ Tirmidhi, ibid). In the above Hadith it is very clearly mentioned that the muqtadi must not recite sura fatiha.

Modernism... modern means recent, present or up to date. what do mean by modernism here? Should i say it the recent or present (much degraded from the past) culture and social values of the west. Yes this is the meaning that our words & actions compel us to infer. So every one knows the harms and benefits of such moderism. Neither it is desireable nor it is beneficial. But still we want to be "modern", isnt it?.

Awareness... awareness to what? awareness to the goods and bads of deeds and actions, and our dignified relegious values... obviously it helps reduce the crime rate (any crime... why just sex in special??)

Media... what is its role in spreading awareness today? it makes us aware of whats happening in world of crime, old, new and advanced methods of doing crimes, how to escape safely from being caught etc (in this etc i include the half of the total internet media dedicated to sex only, as you mentioned it).

But obviously this is not the only cause of rising crime ratio.

SALL said:

who said pehle buraiyan nahi hoti thi ??

kisi nay bhi nahi kaha. sirf ye kaha hai kay ratio of crimes barh rahi hai, and it is a fact.

new_beau said:

In my Personal Opinion. whatever is th ereallity. After Incestigation, He should be released. Becuase even if he is guilty, He is just doing his duty.

Doing duty... if someone spys your home for someone, or kills your father, will you leave him by saying that he is doing his duty, so let him do?

(Not a dignified man at least)